[Athos]

Is this page dead? Maybe this still controversial issue will revive it a bit.

For all the tremendous good the Catholic Church has accomplished over the last two millennia, there remains the current "unresolved" issue of recent scandals.

Pope John Paul II, a protector of pedophilic priests, was canonized (made a Saint) early in the reign of Francis, the current pope. It's hard to think of anything more scandalous.

The Church continues to protect Bishops that, in turn, protect priests under the authority of those Bishops from civil investigation/prosecution.

A few years ago, in Ireland, the Vatican tried to lay down the law to the civil government re certain regulations regarding how to handle clerical matters. Ireland, arguably the most faithful daughter of the Church, replied, to its eternal credit, "mind your own business". (MY paraphrase).

Is it time for Pope Francis to make a dispositive resolution to this troubling matter? I think yes.

[J_9]

This just sickens me. I am sick and tired of people calling out the Catholic Church, but ignoring other denominations. Does it make it wrong for Catholics because of the vow of Chastity, but it's okay for other denominations because they don't take that vow?

My BIL is a Presbyterian preacher. His youth minister molested 2 of my nieces. Is he better than the priest because he is not Catholic?

A colleague of mine recently revealed that her 6 year old son was molested by their preacher. A female Baptist preacher. And it is now going to the grand jury and the child is in therapy.

It happens across all religions. Stop blaming just one.

[CravenMorhead]

Such things are rampant in the LDS church as well.

It isn't symptomatic of the faith or the church but of the people as a whole.If you look at it, there are many, many priests out there and only a couple who diddle small kids. The general population is the same. While the priests are holy, there are still people. People are weak. It shouldn't be up to the church to deal with these matters, but to local law enforcement.

Picking on a particular faith isn't fair when it is an issue with EVERY FAITH.

It should be seen what good the church is doing in society and how it is progressing. That is what you need to concentrate on.

[ebaines]

OK, let's heat this up!

Of course child molestation happens in many institutions, not just the Catholic Church. Private schools, Boy Scout troops, summer camps, youth soccer teams, drama clubs .. they've all had their issues with adults molesting children. I don't know whether the rate of abuse among priests is any higher or lower than in the general population. That's not the point. The point here is that the management of the Catholic Church must bear the blame for having systematically covered the issue up for many, many years. The Catholic Church is organized and run as a monolithic institution with a rigid global hierarchy. Any decision to move a pedophile priest from one diocese to another, as opposed to calling the cops and defrocking the priest, is made within that management system. It requires the cooperation of priests, bishops and Cardinals working together to make this happen. You'd be hard-pressed to come up with example of other organizations where the wide spread abuse has been systematically covered up and countenanced by all levels of management, right up to the top. If a school teacher molests a kid and the head-of-school handles it poorly or illegally, that's an isolated event in that school. When Sandusky was caught at Penn State that scandal involved only him - Penn State management was (righty) vilified for not dealing with him when they first learned of it, but there is no systemic history of Penn State shuffling pedophiles off to other schools. As for other religious denominations - most are decentralized, without the over-arching management that can shuffle priests/rectors/pastors/ministers between parishes for years. No other denomination could cover up wide spread abuse as efficiently as the Catholic Church hierarchy did for so many years.

And J_9 -- I don't understand why you mentioned the vow of chastity. The scandal is not about priests having affairs with their adult parishioners - it's about child abuse and molestation.

[smoothy]

This just sickens me. I am sick and tired of people calling out the Catholic Church, but ignoring other denominations. Does it make it wrong for Catholics because of the vow of Chastity, but it's okay for other denominations because they don't take that vow?

My BIL is a Presbyterian preacher. His youth minister molested 2 of my nieces. Is he better than the priest because he is not Catholic?

A colleague of mine recently revealed that her 6 year old son was molested by their preacher. A female Baptist preacher. And it is now going to the grand jury and the child is in therapy.

It happens across all religions. Stop blaming just one.

Happens among Atheists and Agnostics as well. Its not a religious based problem. Its an issue with humans that have tendencies towards pedophilia. And for that matter...its not even a men only thing...plenty of women are being caught doing it as well.

How much remains unreported? Is anyone's guess.

[Fr_Chuck]

I think part of the PR trouble with the Catholic Church, is several fold, First many of those that accuse if you look at it, are from 10, 20 or even 30 years ago, I would wonder what the Boy Scouts would do against 20 year old claims, most likely nothing, since it is long past.

The other is that they tried for too long to hide it, most likely following a long time old process, that worked before internet and news spreading. And to add to that, most likely a false percentage of the claims, that happen in all levels of rape charges.

[ebaines]

I would wonder what the Boy Scouts would do against 20 year old claims, most likely nothing, since it is long past.

If the boy scout management systematically hid abuse, and reassigned pedophile scout masters to other troops so that they could prey on additional children, then I would hope they'd be in much trouble as the Catholic Church hierarchy has found itself.

And to add to that, most likely a false percentage of the claims, that happen in all levels of rape charges.

This sounds like the reaction of a denier. You hope that the problem isn't as bad as has been reported, so you hope that many of the claims are false. I am not aware of any evidence that the rate of false claims against priests is any higher than for abuse reports against adults in other types of institutions that have children in their care (schools, soccer coaches, Boy Scouts, etc) - are you?

[Athos]

This just sickens me. I am sick and tired of people calling out the Catholic Church, but ignoring other denominations. Does it make it wrong for Catholics because of the vow of Chastity, but it's okay for other denominations because they don't take that vow?

.....

It happens across all religions. Stop blaming just one.

Your logic is, at best, confusing: at worst, flawed.

What other individuals, groups, denominations do in a similar situation is irrelevant to how the Catholic Church deals with its own problems.

[Athos]

Such things are rampant in the LDS church as well.

It isn't symptomatic of the faith or the church but of the people as a whole.If you look at it, there are many, many priests out there and only a couple who diddle small kids. The general population is the same. While the priests are holy, there are still people. People are weak. It shouldn't be up to the church to deal with these matters, but to local law enforcement.

Picking on a particular faith isn't fair when it is an issue with EVERY FAITH.

It should be seen what good the church is doing in society and how it is progressing. That is what you need to concentrate on.

Hiding your head in the sand, ostrich-like, is hardly the way to deal with the problem.

Your "only a couple who diddle kids" is at least 4% according to the John Jay report, and that represents ONLY the reported ones. The ACTUAL percentage including the non-reported is likely twice or more that.

The Church role is to INFORM the authorities, NOT to protect the offenders as they have traditionally done. OF course, it's their responsibility. The "guidelines" coming from the Vatican are weak and ineffectual.

If you wish to ignore the problem, do you then become part of the problem?

[Athos]

Happens among Atheists and Agnostics as well. Its not a religious based problem. Its an issue with humans that have tendencies towards pedophilia. And for that matter...its not even a men only thing...plenty of women are being caught doing it as well.

How much remains unreported? Is anyone's guess.

The Catholic Church problem is overwhelmingly men.

[Athos]

OK, let's heat this up!

The point here is that the management of the Catholic Church must bear the blame for having systematically covered the issue up for many, many years.

The Catholic Church is organized and run as a monolithic institution with a rigid global hierarchy. Any decision to move a pedophile priest from one diocese to another, as opposed to calling the cops and defrocking the priest, is made within that management system. It requires the cooperation of priests, bishops and Cardinals working together to make this happen.

You'd be hard-pressed to come up with example of other organizations where the wide spread abuse has been systematically covered up and countenanced by all levels of management, right up to the top. If a school teacher molests a kid and the head-of-school handles it poorly or illegally, that's an isolated event in that school.

.....

As for other religious denominations - most are decentralized, without the over-arching management that can shuffle priests/rectors/pastors/ministers between parishes for years. No other denomination could cover up wide spread abuse as efficiently as the Catholic Church hierarchy did for so many years.

And J_9 -- I don't understand why you mentioned the vow of chastity. The scandal is not about priests having affairs with their adult parishioners - it's about child abuse and molestation.

Would that all the posters here would read your very effective answer. You've keyed on the crux of the matter. Thanks.

[Athos]

I think part of the PR trouble with the Catholic Church, is several fold, First many of those that accuse if you look at it, are from 10, 20 or even 30 years ago, I would wonder what the Boy Scouts would do against 20 year old claims, most likely nothing, since it is long past.

The other is that they tried for too long to hide it, most likely following a long time old process, that worked before internet and news spreading. And to add to that, most likely a false percentage of the claims, that happen in all levels of rape charges.

If you're suggesting nothing should be done because of (distant) past actions, that's simply wrong. Some crimes should not be limited by statute.

There is NO evidence that claims that have been investigated are false. Yes, the hierarchy hid it for far too long. That's my point. They're still doing it, although this time with a lot of lip service.

[smoothy]

The Catholic Church problem is overwhelmingly men.

The offending priests in the Catholic church are only a tiny fraction of the total number of people committing pedophilia on this planet.

[Athos]

The offending priests in the Catholic church are only a tiny fraction of the total number of people committing pedophilia on this planet.

Are we therefore to overlook it? Your comment is irrelevant.

[smoothy]

Are we therefore to overlook it? Your comment is irrelevant.

So, you should ignore all the rest (which is most of it) so you can bash one specific group that happens to have a tiny percentage of offenders?

Doing that reeks of prejudice. Because the same energy and effort isn't being expressed towards all the others. I think the whole premise of your post is irrelevant because It stinks of Christian bashing under the pretext of pedophilia that appears more like a footnote.

Going after pedophilia, good, singling out the smallest group of offenders to focus all the attention on is counter productive to fighting pedophilia if that's the real motive.

Not any different than spending all your time worrying about a street dealer and ignoring the major drug traffickers.

Nobody is defending them ( I'm not even Catholic) ....but the entire thing reeks of ulterior motives. You go after the larger groups first for maximum impact with the lest effort and work towards the smaller ones as efforts expended yield smaller results.

Its all about priorities....

[Fr_Chuck]

Most are from my readings, family members or known friends, so the most dangerous class of people, are not the religious or the boy scouts, but the Uncle, the cousin or the next door neighbor. Along with those within the actual family.

[DoulaLC]

. Changes have been made both internally and in regard to police reporting. Should the situation been handled differently? Of course... there shouldn't have been provisions in canon law that allowed for such secrecy... but that has changed now. Could more sweeping changes be made to offer past victims some semblance of resolution and better protect against future victims? Certainly, but as others have said, that holds true for all victims of abuse.

I think part of the issue people have had with the Catholic Church is certainly in the handling of such situations, which has changed, but also the idea that priests are held to a higher standard... so the idea of deviant behavior is both more appalling and more foder for criticism, especially by those who are not religious.

[talaniman]

While I can agree that the Catholic Church may be a small part of a greater problem dealing with the abuse of children, religious or not, the facts say that clearly we have an example of obstruction of justice by covering up CRIMINAL behavior, at least in the US. No telling what has gone on, or still goes on, in other countries, or other large institutions, and no matter what changes have been made criminals and their protector go UNPUNISHED.

I mean is it bashing to go after the cases of abuse we KNOW about? What's disturbing is how religious people can so easily dismiss the outrage that such self policing has seemingly squashed. I suppose if you can afford to throw money at the problem and make it go away that it's all good.

NO IT'S NOT! The message the Catholic Church sends is loud and clear, they are above the law EVERYWHERE, so move along, nothing to see here, they fixed it. That's outrageous, and the CC deserves ALL the criticism it gets. All criminals deserve punishment though not just the very pubic, tip of the iceberg Catholic Church, nor should all the dissenters, and critics of their practices and policies be dismissed as non religious bashers.

[DoulaLC]

So it appears everyone is in agreement. It should never have happened, it should not have been kept secret internally, while changes made are in the right direction... more should be done, and anyone (regardless of who they are) who abuses children, or anyone else for that matter, should be held accountable.

[Athos]

... while changes made are in the right direction... more should be done,

"A bishop who changes a priest of a parish when a case of pedophilia is discovered is a man without a conscience and the best thing he can do is to present his resignation," said the pope".

This is a direct quote from Pope Francis yesterday (February 18, 2016).

Probably without meaning to, he has zeroed in on the heart of the problem. Namely, that the Vatican relies on the criminal Bishops to REGULATE THEMSELVES. What the pope needs to do is create strict canon laws prohibiting criminal behavior, NOT by asking the criminals to turn themselves in.

Self-regulation rarely works in any field, and certainly NOT in any criminal field. The Bishops have shown over the decades that they are not about to turn themselves in.