[talaniman]

Yeah misspurple, be like Clete and hate all Muslims (native, asians and americans, and the list goes on) for the actions of a few and give the prejudiced their due respect.

Sorry Clete it's not okay to attack constantly and then be offended when you THINK you are attacked.

You want to change, widen your circle of friends, allow others to express themselves and stay away from social media because we don't care what they say on Facebook

What's this we stuff Kimosabe?

[paraclete]

Hi tal her original post said she came here because of what she saw on Facebook, I guess she couldn't get a good rational argument. As far as Muslims are concerned they are the most deceived people on Earth and what is sad is they cannot discern it. Tell me tal who else do you see committing widespread mayhem these days, aside from some misguided souls in the US who may or may not be influenced by them. By the way I'm not the lone stranger

Point is Tal anyone can attack me but like Braveheart they shall never take my freedom. There are no native muslims where I live, just the migrant kind, the natives don't like them

[talaniman]

Morning to you Clete. Thanks for not disappointing by doubling down on your prejudice, but shouldn't you take your own advice and expand your own knowledge wider than your own social circle? Braveheart did more than talk amongst his fellows he did something about his oppression, as are many Muslims across the globe. I will agree some are misguided and stupid, choosing to kill innocents, but humans running from conflicts in their native land is a long held natural traditional reaction.

Everybody has done it, and that's the basis of this thread. Just because you and Smoothy refuse to acknowledge the elephant and focus on the trunk is not anybody's fault but your own. Playing bully and victim is so disgusting.

Enjoy your freedom today, if that's what you want to call your entitled arrogance.

[smoothy]

Thank you Talaniman:-).

Talk about the pot calling the Kettle Black.

YOU are the person here who basically called everyone who is not you a racist.

But don't fear... YOU can have all the Muslims you want in your tiny little country. When they start acting like they have in England.. and in France... don't come to us for help, because you asked for it. It isn't IF, but WHEN it will happen. 1,600 years of History proves it will. Just like every it has every other place on Earth.. That's a FACT... that's REALITY. Ignore history at your own peril. Your English is good enough I'm certain you understand what "Ignore history at your own peril" means. There is also another saying....those that ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

Its not the individual that is the threat on average....its the collective and the mob mentality when they collect in numbers great enough in any one place. I have a number of Muslims I consider good friends..I however know well enough what they do in large enough numbers that I do not trust them in the whole.

And I have actual direct experience backing that up...not knowing just a couple people then jumping to the conclusion they are all just like them.

My work and life experience has had me places, seen things not to mention done things....very , very few people have.and likely no more than a couple on this entire site have...if that many. The sort of things most people only see in movies or read about in books. The sorts of things I am not even allowed legally to specify in any sort of detail.

The fact is the world isn't all about absolutes...Good or bad, black or white....Because it is all about shades of grey...and degrees of good or bad. Believing otherwise is dangerous and foolish.

And trusting the wrong people for idealistic reasons while pointing fingers at the people who you really want to be your friends can have serious and sometimes fatal consequences when the people you thought were friends turn on you and the people that wanted to be your friends turn their backs because you put them down.

[talaniman]

Oh give it up and go back to worshipping Assad and Vlad, your heroes. France isn't all that big on religious freedoms not even for Christians so go spit!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...ols_in_schools

[Precious7]

I don't believe in Jesus anymore. But I didn't forget his teachings and I just don't understand how so many people that still say that they are Christians don't follow those things that he said. If they would, the world would have been a better place.

Did you watch the YouTube clip that I posted with Stephen Frye? He explains very clearly that as an atheist I don't even believe that Jehova exists, so I don't hate him, I can't hate something that doesn't exist, but if he were real, I would despise him.
.
If even after watching that clip, you still don't understand what my point of view is, I really don't think that I can explain it to you.

I didn't went straight from being a Catholic to an atheist. When I was 18 I wanted to convert to protestantism, because protestants are allowed to use birth control, get a divorce, use IVF etc. But my father exploded. He said that no one in the family ever left Catholicism, so neither would I. The Bible also says that you should honour your parents, so I only stayed Catholic in name.

But Jehova is still Jehova, it doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic or a protestant, what Stephen Frye says, still applies.

Okey! I get it that, you are a humanitarian. You don't believe in any Jesus. I understand your concern about people telling they are Christian but do the opposite way and I totally agree with you on this, this is very unfortunate. But here is the thing misspurple, People have their own walk with God and also they are in different level of growing, all are in different level of revelation, some are baby some are grown. Don't let other's action cause you to disbelieve in what you were believing. Its Just between you and God. People will fall, they are not perfect. When I was very young Christian I would have done so many things that doesn't align with the word of God thinking that I was doing it right. But as I grew more and more, I got corrected and have myself grew more in wisdom and revelation to do those same thing correctly.

A Youtube clip! I get an idea of what you believe but its not going to change my heart and real life experiences and presence of God as an evidence of His existence in my life. HE has healed me, protected me, rescued me and saved me. I have seen paralyzed people walking in Jesus name after being paralyzed about 28/27 yrs, I have seen cancer vanishing from body even it was 3rd stage, I have seen people living a sober life, I have seen marriage been saved, I have seen providence in life out of nowhere, I have seen pain going off in Jesus name, I have seen cancer cell getting vanished in Jesus name and doctors wondering in amazement that where did it go? I have seen deaf hearing in Jesus name, Just last week I have seen my friend healed in Jesus name, walking without crutches and jumping and running after 5 months being in accident and told by others that she is going to be disable for her whole life. When I see her walking and in her eyes the tears of gratitude and Joy and humbleness, I cant stop myself being humbled and more strongly falling in Love with God. And many many many more I cant write it here. SO, I cant even dare to question His existence when He has revealed me again and again. ''I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.'' ''Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find... ''
I don't know what else to say, I can speak for myself not forcing anybody. This is it!

[misspurple77]

Okey! I get it that, you are a humanitarian. You don't believe in any Jesus. I understand your concern about people telling they are Christian but do the opposite way and I totally agree with you on this, this is very unfortunate. But here is the thing misspurple, People have their own walk with God and also they are in different level of growing, all are in different level of revelation, some are baby some are grown. Don't let other's action cause you to disbelieve in what you were believing. Its Just between you and God. People will fall, they are not perfect. When I was very young Christian I would have done so many things that doesn't align with the word of God thinking that I was doing it right. But as I grew more and more, I got corrected and have myself grew more in wisdom and revelation to do those same thing correctly.

A Youtube clip! I get an idea of what you believe but its not going to change my heart and real life experiences and presence of God as an evidence of His existence in my life. HE has healed me, protected me, rescued me and saved me. I have seen paralyzed people walking in Jesus name after being paralyzed about 28/27 yrs, I have seen cancer vanishing from body even it was 3rd stage, I have seen people living a sober life, I have seen marriage been saved, I have seen providence in life out of nowhere, I have seen pain going off in Jesus name, I have seen cancer cell getting vanished in Jesus name and doctors wondering in amazement that where did it go? I have seen deaf hearing in Jesus name, Just last week I have seen my friend healed in Jesus name, walking without crutches and jumping and running after 5 months being in accident and told by others that she is going to be disable for her whole life. When I see her walking and in her eyes the tears of gratitude and Joy and humbleness, I cant stop myself being humbled and more strongly falling in Love with God. And many many many more I cant write it here. SO, I cant even dare to question His existence when He has revealed me again and again. ''I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.'' ''Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find... ''
I don't know what else to say, I can speak for myself not forcing anybody. This is it!

God never answered my prayers, so I have a totally different experience. But I am not trying to take your faith from you, I only tried to take away your confusion about what my beliefs exactly are.

[smoothy]

Oh give it up and go back to worshipping Assad and Vlad, your heroes. France isn't all that big on religious freedoms not even for Christians so go spit!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...ols_in_schools

The French aren't all that big on a lot of stuff. Funny how people can call the Americans Arrogant... but ignore the French and most other Europeans.

Plenty of arrogance to go around there too. Don't have to spend that much time there to see it either. It's not a bad place to visit... but I wouldn't want to live there. And I have spent a fair amount of time there. Cleaner on average than Italy... but the Italian people are not nearly as uppity as most of Europe is. Weathers better in Italy too. But then Italy has a lot of arrogant people too.

And no... I don't have ANY Italian blood in my History. German yeah... 50%... 0% Italian.

[misspurple77]

I just read the article, I hadn't come around to it earlier. I already knew that there are a lot angry, entitled, misogynistic men out there. Asides from all the guns there, I blame American culture and upbringing, not mental illnes for that. We never had a shooter like that over here. There are also a lot more rapes over there than here. You probably won't like what I will say right now, but I see the Bible as a misogynistic book. The Abrahamic God is representative for a patriarchical society. Because the US is so Christian it is so patriarchal. It is very secular over here, so those values aren't as intertwined with Dutch society as with US society. According to the Bible women should be obedient. So unconsciously these angry misogynists, feel that they are being wronged, for not having sex with an obedient girlfriend, that they are raised to believe would adore them.

In the US a lot of children are being raised with the idea that they should save themselves for marriage. Here premarital sex is the norm. But there lots of people already slutshame you for simply not being a virgin. Once young women are labeled sluts, they are respected less and that makes it easier to rape them.

So, I am absolutely not saying this to upset you, but if it was just simply mental illnes, there would have been as much angry male shootings over here as there. Everybody will agree with me, that there is no reason to assume that the mental health is that much better in Europe as in the US, so why does this keeps happening in the US? I blame it on this and of course on the gun laws over there.

[Wondergirl]

I blame it on this and of course on the gun laws over there.

He legally purchased guns. The huge majority of U.S. gun owners don't become mass murderers. (And I'm not an NRA member or "gun nut.") But look at the age of this shooter and Adam Lanza's age and Dylann Roof's age and the ages of most of the recent mass murderers. Do you see something interesting? Maybe that's what we need to consider and wonder why. And start doing something about it.

[misspurple77]

He legally purchased guns. The huge majority of U.S. gun owners don't become mass murderers. (And I'm not an NRA member or "gun nut.") But look at the age of this shooter and Adam Lanza's age and Dylann Roof's age and the ages of most of the recent mass murderers. Do you see something interesting? Maybe that's what we need to consider and wonder why. And start doing something about it.

Yes, he legally purchased guns. I am absolutely certain of it, that with better laws, just like Obama said, this could have been prevented.

Yes, age also has something to do with it. That is what I also addressed, I think that the US culture produces young entitled men. They get so angry because they feel entitled to something that they don't get. They idolise each other. On another forum there was this guy that really did say that he had Asperger's and he idolised Elliot Rodger. They banned him, but he kept coming back. He asked questions like: Should women be killed if they refuse to suck an autistic guys penis. I suspect that I know his name, because he once posted his Facebook profile picture, asking us for our opinions of him. I am not a US citizen, but in light of what happened, do you think that it is wise to give his information to the US authorities? In case this guy plans to be the next shooter?

[Wondergirl]

There are many guns laws now that are not enforced or fully enforced. What gun law would have stopped the Oregon shooter?

[misspurple77]

The one that would have prevented him from owning a gun! But as you know I am a foreigner, so I really didn't know that there are laws, that aren't being enforced or what they exacty entail. So maybe one of those laws would have been enough, if it was enforced.

Did you see Obama's speech?

"This is a political choice that we make to allow this to happen every few months in America. We collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loves ones because of our inaction. When Americans are killed in mine disasters, we work to make mines safer. When Americans are killed in floods and hurricanes, we make communities safer. When roads are unsafe, we fix them to reduce auto fatalities. We have seatbelt laws because we know it saves lives. The notion that gun violence is somehow different—that our freedom and our Constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon, when there are law-abiding gun owners all across the country who could hunt, and protect their families, and do everything they do under such regulations—doesn't make sense."

First time that I saw a like by Mark Zuckerberg himself, BTW!

[Wondergirl]

But why would he have been prevented? He had no prison or mental-illness history.

Yes, I saw Obama's speech.

[smoothy]

I just read the article, I hadn't come around to it earlier. I already knew that there are a lot angry, entitled, misogynistic men out there. Asides from all the guns there, I blame American culture and upbringing, not mental illnes for that. We never had a shooter like that over here. There are also a lot more rapes over there than here. You probably won't like what I will say right now, but I see the Bible as a misogynistic book. The Abrahamic God is representative for a patriarchical society. Because the US is so Christian it is so patriarchal. It is very secular over here, so those values aren't as intertwined with Dutch society as with US society. According to the Bible women should be obedient. So unconsciously these angry misogynists, feel that they are being wronged, for not having sex with an obedient girlfriend, that they are raised to believe would adore them.

In the US a lot of children are being raised with the idea that they should save themselves for marriage. Here premarital sex is the norm. But there lots of people already slutshame you for simply not being a virgin. Once young women are labeled sluts, they are respected less and that makes it easier to rape them.

So, I am absolutely not saying this to upset you, but if it was just simply mental illnes, there would have been as much angry male shootings over here as there. Everybody will agree with me, that there is no reason to assume that the mental health is that much better in Europe as in the US, so why does this keeps happening in the US? I blame it on this and of course on the gun laws over there.

Oh yes there have been shootings in Europe They have made the news...do you even watch the news?... The violent crime rate in most have Europe is Higher than it is in the USA. In fact in the UK its TWICE as high as the USA. But then... why let things like facts get in the way of a rant.

DO you actually think taking away guns will stop Killings? You are seriously delusional if you think that.

And Taking away guns.. Thats How Hitler and the National Socialists could solidify power like they did, They disarmed everyone. But then... Europeans really don't have a concept of what a bull of rights is... they don't have one. Any rights the have today can EASILY be taken away tomorrow.

The City I live in has had ONE....read that ONE murder in the last 5 years and it wasn't gun related..it was a stabbing...maybe you think its a good idea to outlaw knives...far more people get stabbed to death with knives than shot. Statistics back that up...look them up. Good luck finding a city in Europe that can make that same claim.

In fact motor vehicles kill far, far more people than anything else, maybe you want to outlaw them too, How about hammers, 2X4 wooden beams in fact anything that can be used as a club....far more people are beaten to death with blunt objects than guns....but why let facts get in the way.

Seriously where are you getting these "facts"...are you dreaming them up?

Want to keep people safe..you lock up the criminals and keep the people with mental disorders off the streets. Because you can't force them to stay on their medications. And that's when many of them become a danger.

Most gun owners NEVER commit a crime in their lives...But most people that have committed murders have committed other crimes previously or have some sort of mental illness. Blame them..not the guns. They are inanimate object....No gun has every gotten up and shot anyone ever in history. They can't. Its impossible.

And a lot of these "angry young Males"... are taught to be that way....they are never punished growing up, they are taught they are special and they are taught they are entitled to anything they want.....not anything they work hard enough to earn, most are never taught to have respect for anyone or anything. They think they are entitled to respect despite having never done anything to earn it.

When they find out the real world is not like they were taught to believe they get angry and upset they can't have everything right now without working to earn it.

I worked hard for 34 years AFTER college to get where I am....kids today think they are entitled to everything right out of school. They aren't willing to work their way up...because NOBODY fresh out of school knows as much as they will even a few more years out of school if they work hard and apply themselves.

Ask an 18 year old and they think they know everything. Ask that same person at 30 and they will laugh about how little they knew at 18 despite what they thought at the time.

[misspurple77]

Again, that is why I do not blame mental illnes. Here you need a valid reason to get a gun, could he have provided one? Here they take a psycholigical test when you want to purchase a gun, did they take one from him?

Of course it is impossible to say without a doubt that this particular case could have been prevented, but the cause of why this has happened for the 15th times, since Obama became President in the US, should be taken care of, so that this will at least happen less often.

We had one mass shooting in The Netherlands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen..._mall_shooting on April 9th 2011 and that one was definitely preventable! In the past a gun permit was denied, but they overlooked his psychiatric history, when they did give him a permit. His parents immediately protested in 2008 and alerted the authorities, that their son shouldn't be allowed to own guns, but the authorities didn't reacted as they should. So since the shooting here was the direct result of people not doing their jobs, I do believe that some mass shootings are preventable and at least some of the 15 that Obama had to deal with, were preventable.

But that is all that I can say about it, I am not an expert in these matters.

EDIT: To avoid any confusion, Tristan wasn't an angry misogynist, Anders Breivik, the Norwegian shooter, was a racist, not a misogynist. So allthough we do have mass shooters here, they seem to have another motive than most of the shooters in the US and that is where I think the culture plays a role. Anders Breivik is different anyway: he is still alive! He didn't wanted to commit suidice, he wanted to change the world! Anders Breivik is the one shooter that could have been assesed by psychiatrists and he wasn't mentally ill.

[Wondergirl]

Which psychological test? Who gives it? Who scores it? Who pays for it?

[smoothy]

But why would he have been prevented? He had no prison or mental-illness history.

Yes, I saw Obama's speech.

Obama is an idiot. ( he has fought hard to keep his college transcripts a secret, so he can't prove he really was smart or even had good grades.)
He proves it every time he opens his mouth. Thank goodness we will soon be relieved of the blight he has brought to this country.

[misspurple77]

Well, I would say psychologists that are approved by the government and of course the person wanting the permit, should have to pay for it! I also paid for my driverslicense, for the lessons, for the exam, all of that to keep the streets safe, so why would it be any different for a gun?

At least the purpose of a car is not to kill, the purpose of a gun is to kill!

[smoothy]

Again, that is why I do not blame mental illnes. Here you need a valid reason to get a gun, could he have provided one? Here they take a psycholigical test when you want to purchase a gun, did they take one from him?

Of course it is impossible to say without a doubt that this particular case could have been prevented, but the cause of why this has happened for the 15th times, since Obama became President in the US, should be taken care of, so that this will at least happen less often.

We had one mass shooting in The Netherlands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen..._mall_shooting on April 9th 2011 and that one was definitely preventable! In the past a gun permit was denied, but they overlooked his psychiatric history, when they did give him a permit. His parents immediately protested in 2008 and alerted the authorities, that their son shouldn't be allowed to own guns, but the authorities didn't reacted as they should. So since the shooting here was the direct result of people not doing their jobs, I do believe that some mass shootings are preventable and at least some of the 15 that Obama had to deal with, were preventable.

But that is all that I can say about it, I am not an expert in these matters.

EDIT: To avoid any confusion, Tristan wasn't an angry misogynist, Anders Breivik, the Norwegian shooter, was a racist, not a misogynist. So allthough we do have mass shooters here, they seem to have another motive than most of the shooters in the US and that is where I think the culture plays a role. Anders Breivik is different anyway: he is still alive! He didn't wanted to commit suidice, he wanted to change the world! Anders Breivik is the one shooter that could have been assesed by psychiatrists and he wasn't mentally ill.

No you DON'T have to have a valid reason... You should have to have a valid reason to open your mouth and talk before you are allowed too? We have the RIGHT to have them... that's a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. And it is codified in our constitution... stupid people also have the right to make fools out of themselves too... that's another one. NO rights are more sacred than the right to own guns and defend yourself.

In fact people that even think they have the right to deny our right to own guns... is dangerous and a threat to everyone and freedom everywhere.

Funny how Europeans have no grasp of what rights actuall yare or how sacred they are... when any "right" they have today can be taken away tomorrow and there is nothing they can do.

In fact IN many states you actually have the right to carry guns...You don't see many thugs committing crimes in VA, But cross the river into DC where only criminals have guns...crime is rampant.

In fact EVERY mass shooting that has ever happened was in a gun free zone......lot of good that did. Criminals don't obey the law...and it meant law abiding citizens that could have stopped them were not armed to do anything.

No you DON'T have to have a valid reason... You should have to have a valid reason to open your mouth and talk before you are allowed too? We have the RIGHT to have them... that's a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. And it is codified in our constitution... stupid people also have the right to make fools out of themselves too... that's another one. NO rights are more sacred than the right to own guns and defend yourself.

In fact people that even think they have the right to deny our right to own guns... is dangerous and a threat to everyone and freedom everywhere.

Funny how Europeans have no grasp of what rights actuall yare or how sacred they are... when any "right" they have today can be taken away tomorrow and there is nothing they can do.


And if you think something is so just because you found it in Wikipedia. You are a fool. Ask wondergirl....I gave her one example were NOTHING on Wikipedia or elsewhere on the Internet was factual. There are LOTS of examples were its contents on certain topics is completely inaccurate. Sure SOME things are. But then a broken clock is still right twice a day too.

Google Alien Abduction....take a look at the numbers of topics...doesn't make it so....same with Bigfoot. Lots of people are convinced that is real.....yet no proof exists.