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    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #1

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:05 AM
    Flapper Help
    My downstairs toilet is driving me crazy. The flapper had deteriorated so I replaced it with a new one. But its not seating properly. I still hear a little trickle after the flapper descends and every few minutes, I hear the rush as the refill tube sprays water for a few seconds.

    The flapper type is one that fits over the refill tube. I've tried playing with the positioning to no avail.

    Any suggestions?
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:11 AM
    Run your finger around the seat the flapper seals to. It should be smooth.. to you feel any roughness perhaps caused by damage or mineral deposits? If there is you can try to clear or dissolve them...if damage is physical there are repair kits,
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #3

    Sep 10, 2015, 10:54 AM
    If the seat feels smooth when you feel it, you might want to try a different brand of flapper. There can be slight differences in size and in the distance between the overflow pipe and the actual flapper. Some just work better than others.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #4

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:33 AM
    The seat felt smooth as I recall. Is there any sort of washer or something I can put over the seat to try and make a better seal? Are there better brands or types of flappers? What about weighting the flapper, if I press lightly on it, the trickling sound does stop.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #5

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:34 AM
    If the overflow tube of the flush valve has little hooks sticking out the side of it then you want to cut the round part of the flapper off using a knife and then install the flapper onto the hooks... that should do it.

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    Mark
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #6

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:39 AM
    Mark, there is a stop at the bottom of the tube, but I don't think there are hooks. There is nothing that I see that is sued as a pivot. The seat does have a stand where with holes for a pivot, but I didn't see a flapper that could fit it.
    massplumber2008's Avatar
    massplumber2008 Posts: 12,832, Reputation: 1212
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    #7

    Sep 10, 2015, 11:45 AM
    If you are sure the toilet overflow tube doesn't have hooks then you might look into a replacement seat and flapper... called a fluidmaster seat/flapper kit... see image. Sold at almost all home improvement stores nowadays.

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    This unit simply pushes down over the old setup...no tools needed!!

    If you have an older style American standard toilet with a MISSING actuator valve like in the image below then you simply need to purchase an ACTUATOR FLAPPER and actuator valve to fix this permanently. An exact replacement from American standard is usually sold at all plumbing supply stores:

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    .
    ma0641's Avatar
    ma0641 Posts: 15,675, Reputation: 1012
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    #8

    Sep 10, 2015, 12:53 PM
    Also make sure the flapper is for the toilet. Most "universal" flappers will not work in a number of Kohler Toilets. I use the replacement noted in Mark's #7 post for all older American Standard.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #9

    Sep 10, 2015, 01:47 PM
    I don't think it look like the second picture. This is what the flapper looks like:
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    I saw what you showed in the first pic in the store yesterday. The problem is (after looking at pics) that it looks like the fill tube was moved at some point. I can see a plug in the bottom of the tank. Around the opening is something that rises up to pivots. Kind of like the first picture. So I'm afraid I can't just get the new assembly and push it down over what's existing.

    What about my idea to weight the flapper?
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #10

    Sep 10, 2015, 02:29 PM
    Beginning to sound like we have a communications problem here.

    it looks like the fill tube was moved at some point.
    A fill tube is the little(usually black) tube from the fill valve that is attached to the top of the overflow pipe.
    Around the opening is something that rises up to pivots
    I can't imagine what that could be or what its purpose is.
    I can see a plug in the bottom of the tank
    Can't imagine that either.

    The proper terminology here would be flush valve. A flapper is just one type of flush valve. There are others. Perhaps your original was some other type.

    How about showing us a picture of the inside of your tank (empty of course.)
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    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #11

    Sep 10, 2015, 02:47 PM
    For about $19 your can replace the whole thing with a Fluidmaster 400AK. Sometimes replacement flappers are perfectly interchangeable
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #12

    Sep 10, 2015, 03:51 PM
    Hk, you're right I was using the wrong term. I meant overflow tube. Anyway here is a pic. The red circle shows what I think are supports for a flapper. That's what I think would interfere with using the kit Mark suggested. The blue circle shows what looks like a plug in the bottom of the tank. My guess is that an overflow tube used to be there. But that's just a guess. Name:  tank.jpg
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    Ball, the 400a just replaces the fill valve. It has nothing to do with the flush valve.

    In my tank, I don't know if I would call it a valve. The tank handle lifts the flapper causing the toilet to flush. Once the tank empties, the flapper is supposed to seal the hole allowing the tank to refill, which it does, but the seal is not good enough. Water still seeps from the tank causing the float to drop enough to release water into the tank.
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #13

    Sep 10, 2015, 04:46 PM
    Can't really tell (picture to dark)but that looks like it might be the mounting bracket for the type of flush valve Mark showed in his second picture. Or some other type of flush valve.

    If that is correct the flapper is not going to work as a replacement. When a flapper is used the discharge port where the flapper sits is usually slanted slightly. It is shaped that way because the point where the flapper is attached is always a little higher than the opening. Therefore,the flapper doesn't sit perfectly horizontal.

    Weighting the flapper won't work. The flapper floats after you lift it because a ball of air is trapped in it. That makes it float until the water level drops. Putting a weight on it would screw that up and it would close to quickly. No only that but the weight of the water on the flapper after it closed is sufficient to press it against the seat.

    Take another picture, try to make it a little lighter (hold a lamp nearby) and lets have another look.

    You may have to replace the entire assembly like Bob suggested, but that is not that difficult.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #14

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:06 PM
    OK, maybe these pics will make it clearer
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    joypulv's Avatar
    joypulv Posts: 21,591, Reputation: 2941
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    #15

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:10 PM
    To reiterate what ma said, the last time I replaced a flapper I went to Home Depot, and there was a whole row of universal ones. Bought one. Didn't seal. Went back, found the Kohler ones way up high, so high I couldn't reach.

    I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this is just one of many little things I've run into that make DIY difficult. I think it was deliberate.
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #16

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:20 PM
    Yes, that is the mounting brackets for the flush valve.
    What brand is this toilet?
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #17

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:37 PM
    Haven't a clue, where would it say?
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #18

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:38 PM
    I just corrected my earlier post when I said Fluidmaster 400A, 400 AK
    hkstroud's Avatar
    hkstroud Posts: 11,929, Reputation: 899
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    #19

    Sep 10, 2015, 06:58 PM
    Underside of tank lid, back of inside of the tank, on the bowl between the where the seat is attached. Then again, it may not be marked.
    afaroo's Avatar
    afaroo Posts: 4,006, Reputation: 251
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    #20

    Sep 11, 2015, 12:10 AM
    Every expert gave you good advises, I will share my personal problem had a few months ago changed the flapper valves several times with deferent brand no help finally replaced the flush valve assembly fixed the problem, good luck.

    John

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