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talaniman · Sep 4, 2015, 09:08 AM

I found it interesting that none of the gay couples wanted this clerk to go to jail, or personally give them a marriage license. I thought that was classy, and graceful.

tomder55 · Sep 4, 2015, 09:33 AM

But the facts here are very simple. She was elected to do a job. Even if the job requirements changed after being elected, she swore to uphold the law when she took office. If she could not do so, then she should have resigned.

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Yup ,this is not the same as someone working in the private sector where the state compels them to do something they find religiously objectionable . She is hired by the state and if she does not like the work terms she should've done the honorable thing and resigned .

I also think the candidates who are calling this religious persecution need to think it through. Again ...this is not the state compelling someone in the private sector to violate their beliefs . This is state policy to be implemented by state empoyees .

ScottGem · Sep 4, 2015, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

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Yup ,this is not the same as someone working in the private sector where the state compels them to do something they find religiously objectionable . She is hired by the state and if she does not like the work terms she should've done the honorable thing and resigned .

I also think the candidates who are calling this religious persecution need to think it through. Again ...this is not the state compelling someone in the private sector to violate their beliefs . This is state policy to be implemented by state empoyees .

Even worse, County Clerks are elected officials who take an oath of office.

Oliver2011 · Sep 4, 2015, 09:52 AM

What are your thoughts about bills going through the legislature that will permit religious institutions from refusing service if it goes against their beliefs? I really don't have an issue with it.

tomder55 · Sep 4, 2015, 10:19 AM

Oliver I agree . That is where the Scott Walker's ,Mike Huckabee's ,Ted Cruz' and Bobby Jindal's need to make a stand . Believe me ,we 've debated that issue on this board endlessly .
But on the other side of the coin of the realm ...... religious institutions make themselves vulnerable to compromise when they take tax breaks from Ceasar . Do they really think there are no strings attached ?

Oliver2011 · Sep 4, 2015, 10:29 AM

That brings up another point. Are these guys just giving lip service to attract the base? Or is this what they believe? Not a Huckabee fan after this week.

Originally Posted by tomder55

Oliver I agree . That is where the Scott Walker's ,Mike Huckabee's ,Ted Cruz' and Bobby Jindal's need to make a stand . Believe me ,we 've debated that issue on this board endlessly .
But on the other side of the coin of the realm ...... religious institutions make themselves vulnerable to compromise when they take tax breaks from Ceasar . Do they really think there are no strings attached ?

NeedKarma · Sep 4, 2015, 10:37 AM

This is next I guess:

Catsmine · Sep 4, 2015, 02:12 PM

It is precisely the same issue, NK. Well done.

cdad · Sep 5, 2015, 09:22 AM

They may be issuing licenses but its not clear if they are valid ones.

Jailed clerk's attorney: Marriage licenses for gays are void#

talaniman · Sep 5, 2015, 09:36 AM

That's according to HER attorney and may be wishful thinking.

The Rowan County attorney and lawyers for the gay couples said they are legal and valid nevertheless

Looks like more court stuff coming.

paraclete · Sep 5, 2015, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Oliver2011

What are your thoughts about bills going through the legislature that will permit religious institutions from refusing service if it goes against their beliefs? I really don't have an issue with it.

I think your Constitution might have an issue with it, isn't it illegal to make any law about the conduct of any religion. You cannot confer a right on a religion that already exists excepting from exempting a certain class of person from the law

talaniman · Sep 5, 2015, 05:51 PM

I find it hilarious when humans evoke a god to justify their actions yet bristle with indignation when other humans do the same. This nation was built on the notion of manifest destiny which allows the majority to define the minority as inferior and subject to discrimination, and assimilation, and not surprising that's the history of man and every nation he has built.

In time this will pass, but as history shows not without a lot of loud messy conflicts. For sure it will be hard to turn a buck for those that turn away customers, no matter what you believe in. What's striking here is the same Christians who water hosed and chanted hate at blacks who protested for their rights, are the same Christian who want to discriminate and denigrate the gays, even as they protest one of their own being put in jail and liken it to the blacks who went to jail during their civil rights struggles.

They have always written laws in their Christian favor, and now want protection from those who have gained a measure of influence through widening equality, and dare to beg to differ on the old notion of fairness.

Can we conclude it's okay for the majority to subjugate others, and it blows their minds when they CANNOT?

Wondergirl · Sep 5, 2015, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

What's striking here is the same Christians who water hosed and chanted hate at blacks who protested for their rights, are the same Christian who want to discriminate and denigrate the gays, even as they protest one of their own being put in jail and liken it to the blacks who went to jail during their civil rights struggles.

Davis's lawyer likened her situation to that of MLK Jr. In fact, it's just the opposite.

talaniman · Sep 5, 2015, 06:48 PM

You must appreciate the humor in a human who fights for the right to keep discriminating against another human because their god says so.

Akin to the old phrase the devil made me do it as an excuse for bad behavior. Given the parallel, one has to question which "god" they are truly serving?

paraclete · Sep 5, 2015, 09:57 PM

God doesn't call on us to discriminate, what he says is that there are something's we ought not do, but he is not standing beside her saying discriminate against that person. It is not for us to be standing in the way of someone exercising their free will, our role is make a judgement after the event based on evidence

Fr_Chuck · Sep 6, 2015, 12:32 AM

It is the role of the Christian, not to "judge" they do not have to, they merely see what is right and wrong from the Bible. When others are wrong, according to the Bible, they have a obligation to tell that person they are wrong and try to correct them.

At no times are they to accept actions that are not biblical and accept them as right.

That is not judging, God has already judged and wrote what is right or wrong. It is the heart, and the reason for the action a Christian can not judge.

It is simple, and a slippery slope, that is very easy to see now. Soon when will the law close the churches, or stop the pastors from preaching about homosexual behavior in them. Of course the liberals will just say, well the Christian can believe what they want in their home.

This is a lie of Satan. A Christian must to be a real Christian live his faith every day, and everywhere.

All this has done, has proven that most Americans are no longer Christian, even those in the pews on Sunday.

I am really glad I no longer live there and have to see such actions. Where I live it is against the law to invite someone to church, and most churches are illegal to start with. So breaking the law, to be a Christian is a must.

tomder55 · Sep 6, 2015, 02:37 AM

It is simple, and a slippery slope, that is very easy to see now. Soon when will the law close the churches, or stop the pastors from preaching about homosexual behavior in them. Of course the liberals will just say, well the Christian can believe what they want in their home.

It's already here . The city of Houston subpoenaed the church sermons of the city’s religious leaders to check them for criminal hate speech against homosexuals.

I am really glad I no longer live there and have to see such actions. Where I live it is against the law to invite someone to church, and most churches are illegal to start with. So breaking the law, to be a Christian is a must.

and you think you are in a better place ? strange .

excon · Sep 6, 2015, 05:38 AM

Hello again,

This tweet appeared yesterday.. It says it all!

"No one's being jailed for practicing her religion. Someone's being jailed for using the government to force others to practice her religion."

excon

cdad · Sep 6, 2015, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

This tweet appeared yesterday.. It says it all!

"No one's being jailed for practicing her religion. Someone's being jailed for using the government to force others to practice her religion."

excon

That person who made that statement has no idea what they are talking about. This persons protest didnt stop anyone nor ban anyone from obtaining a marriage license in the state of Kentucky. What this person was elected to the position there was a ban in place and it was inline with her beliefs. There was no conflict. Now since the decision from the Supreme Court the conflict has existed. In protest there have been no licenses issues to couples from her area including straight couples. That is what makes it a protest and not a force of government issues.

http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriag...5fc36-0-ab_msb

talaniman · Sep 6, 2015, 07:01 AM

How easily you dismiss the lives and rights of those that are affected by the actions of this "true believer" because a federal law trumps state law. There is no conflict about the law, but choosing to disobey it is the entire conflict. To not issue any lawful marriage licenses because you have to afford that same right to gay people is a clear violation of the law and an injustice to all the constituents of the county and overstepping her boundaries and authority.

Bans on gay marriage have been ruled unconstitutional nationwide, and this clerk took the law into her own hands. Her reasons for it are really irrelevant.

Originally Posted by tomder55

It's already here . The city of Houston subpoenaed the church sermons of the city's religious leaders to check them for criminal hate speech against homosexuals.

Just in the interest of updating this story from 2014.

The Texas Supreme Court Just Upended Houston's LGBT Protections | ThinkProgress