[paraclete]

and you want "stability" by having tyrannous dictatorships . What you should understand by now is that that stability is temporary . You are just kicking the can down the road to the day when the sh*t hits the fan . Further ,the longer you delay ,the more powerful those regimes become and the price paid is greater .

Tom I sometimes wonder if you are serious about what you say. For years I lived in a country who believed in the yellow peril that China would invade us and take what we have away because of our small population. this of course was fed by Japanese actions in WWII Then I became mature, even travelled in China and my understanding changed. They have a different outlook and we don't need to fear that. They want to reestablish their ancient boundries, something we have a little difficulty with because of our democratic ways.

Yes I don't want war, open warfare, what sane person does. Sometimes military solutions are necessary. What did your military solution in Germany produce? A nation with far greater economic might and influence than they had before. Ditto Japan, what holds Japan back are their racist views they are not prepared to accept migration to offset an aging population. Those nations should have been left to be an economic backwater. These nations in Asia take a very long term view and we should learn to do the same. Empires come and go.

When nations reach a certain critical mass they become expansionary. Iran may be entering that phase, may be not after all they can glory in what their past empires achieved and reflect upon how smaller nations ultimately subdued them. The US should learn from this. Iran is actually in the company of some very large neighbours so your only concern is Israel. A small very paranoid nation. Iran has not directly attacked Israel in the way Iraq and Syria attacked Israel and now that Ahmamadjihad is off the scene there may be opportunity for change

[tomder55]

Iran has not directly attacked Israel in the way Iraq and Syria attacked Israel and now that Ahmamadjihad is off the scene there may be opportunity for change

You think the Rouhani is any different than the Mahdi-hatter ? Both take their marching orders from Khomeni and he has not changed tone ,or rhetoric ,or that actions of the Qod forces ,or any of the other Iranian surrogate terrorist organizations .

[talaniman]

None of that matters Tom, but forming rules and boundaries of acceptable behavior with Iran is a plus. If they screw up, make 'em pay. It doesn't matter what they do, just what we do about it. I give you the example of Pearl Harbor and the price Japan paid for sneaky underhanded tactics.

But keep hollering it's amusing.

[tomder55]

None of that matters Tom, but forming rules and boundaries of acceptable behavior with Iran is a plus. If they screw up, make 'em pay. It doesn't matter what they do, just what we do about it. I give you the example of Pearl Harbor and the price Japan paid for sneaky underhanded tactics.

But keep hollering it's amusing.

Rules ? How about NPT and UN regulations ? Here is a short and incomplete history of their compliance with rules :
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon way back in 2003 said the "onus" was on Iran since there is a history of non-cooperation on IAEA inspections the IAEA is unable to confirm that all nuclear material is in peaceful activities. They

did not even declare they had a program until 2003 when a dissedent group outed them and revealed that Iran had 2 facilites ; a uranium enrichment plant and research lab at Natanz and a heavy water production plant in Arak. It was later revealed that they were doing nuclear activity at their Parchin military base near Tehran.

2005, IAEA found Iran in noncompliance with the NPT Safeguards Agreement and decided to refer Tehran to the U.N. Security Council for further action. The decision followed Iran’s repeated failure to fully report its nuclear activities.

2006 they broke IAEA seals at their Natanz enrichment facility and resumed activites there . Again The IAEA voted to report Iran to the U.N. Security Council for its non-compliance with its NPT Safeguards Agreement obligations.

2009 The emperor, French President Sarkozy and British Prime Minister Brown told a press conference that Iran had a covert fuel enrichment plant near Qom. Iran decided to reveal it to the IAEA after they learned they were outed .

A year later they reached the 20% enrichment threshold . 2011

An IAEA report claimed that Iran had continued nuclear weaponization work since 2003 and that Iran had a secret project to enrich uranium .

2012 The IAEA confirmed that Iran had ANOTHER secret operation at Fordow

2013 The IAEA had talks with Tehran because they suspected that Iran was working on nuclear triggers .

So knowing that history ,why do you think they will comply to the rules now ? They know that they were able to violate NPT and UNSC resolutions with impunity . So what is the enforcement mechanism for this agreement ? More inspections by IAEA .....which won't be immediate . The earliest the IAEA can inspect ;assuming complete compliance ,is 24 DAYS after they request it .

This agreement is a joke . You know it and I know it .

[paraclete]

Tom no one denies that Iran has been fighting a proxy war but then so has the US you would both rather use your surrogates than stand toe to toe. Surely you don't need another devistated failed state in the middle east. You made an enemy of Iran, It is time to understand that you don't rule the world. Iran has been doing things in secret, what has the US been doing in secret? We don't know because it is a secret.


The agreement is the best deal you could get at this time, you can take the hard line and reject it in your congress and where does that leave you? Iran on a path to a bomb

[excon]

Hello again,

I'm vague on this, but I understand in the trade bill that was passed, the Republicans GAVE up their ability to STOP this agreement from going into effect.. Pursuant to that vote, they DON'T need 2/3rd's of congress to ratify the agreement, which would NEVER happen.. Now, they need 2/3rd's of them to override his veto, which also will NEVER happen.

Like Obamacare, this agreement is a DONE deal.

excon

[talaniman]

You think someone can hide radioactive activity in 24 days? They confirmed Syria's activity after months when Israel bombed their secret facility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard

[tomder55]

Hello again,

I'm vague on this, but I understand in the trade bill that was passed, the Republicans GAVE up their ability to STOP this agreement from going into effect.. Pursuant to that vote, they DON'T need 2/3rd's of congress to ratify the agreement, which would NEVER happen.. Now, they need 2/3rd's of them to override his veto, which also will NEVER happen.

Like Obamacare, this agreement is a DONE deal.

excon

you are 100 % correct . The idiot Corker made the agreement on the Iran deal . I had thought originally it was a treaty .However ; this is not a treaty . It is an executive agreement with Iran and the P5+1 nations . It can be reversed by Congress after the emperor's term . The Republican Senators spelled that out to the Iranians in a letter this year .

[talaniman]

Now you are talking Tom, keep hollering REPEAL!!

[paraclete]

Well Tal it will give him something to do

[tomder55]

has kept you safe from any terrorist attacks on your soil from the "towel heads"... unlike your previous president.

The terrorist attack by Abdulazeez marks the seventh terrorist attack on U.S. soil by jihadists during the emperor's reign . Two dozen people have been killed . Scores more have been seriously injured.

[talaniman]

In a country that has seen many mass shootings, what's the significance of singling out the jihadists? They are all disgusting.

[tomder55]

In a country that has seen many mass shootings, what's the significance of singling out the jihadists? They are all disgusting.

Because there is a big difference between mass shootings by a nut and foreigners waging war inside the country . Mohammad Abdulazeez travelled to Jordon to get his marching orders to wage war against our troops . Whether they take these actions as lone wolfs or with training ;they are being indoctrinated into waging war in this country .

[NeedKarma]

waging war in this country

Why? What do they have against your country?

[talaniman]

I find it quite sad that you can dismiss the taking of innocents lives by crazy nuts, and go after specific crazy nuts to make a point. That's a pretty narrow view of a bigger problem.

[NeedKarma]

Whatever fits his agenda of contempt.

[paraclete]

You talk about this as being about you alone, these nutcases are waging war against every western country

[tomder55]

What the hell are you talking about . You throw a strawman argument at me ...either I have to be concerned about mass shootings or jihadists attacks ,but not both ? You are the sad one if you equate jihadists waging war and random acts of murder .

[talaniman]

Both examples have the same result, random acts of mass murder. What's the difference between the motives of criminally insane loony nut jobs? Are you saying Roof and Holmes were better terrorist than Abdulazeez the only difference being their religion?

[paraclete]

Yes Tom you do have to be concerned about both, they don't both stem from the same source. You do have lone wolf loonies and it seems you also have lone wolf jihadists. One attacks the general population, the other attacks the military and of course there is always the possibility of the Boston style attack. It is apparent that there might not be large numbers but there are enough to remind you you are not out of their reach