[talaniman]

Here is the mail she sent to me:
The showing with the lady didn't go well. She was very offended that I had the nerves to show her a place that was so untidy.

I know that I didn't give you enough notice and I should have been more organised.

I have had several messages from people who want to see the place but I can't show it in his present condition.
Can you please do some cleaning?

What do you think?

Thank you,

I think your response should be with the same air of cooperation as her mail was to you. She asked what you think so meet with her and put your heads together and resolve this to the benefit of you both. You make no mention of her giving you problems before so why make this a point of contention since you moving has prompted this action.

It may well turn out a few minutes of tidying up may be sufficient, and if more she seems willing to help so find out before you go rogue on her. That would be fair I think.

That's how I would approach her. You can always go rogue if she is unreasonable, or unfair.

[1bluesky]

Much of this is simply common sense. Many people will refuse to rent a place that is "untidy" when shown.

Over my many years of moving across the country (US), I would never rent from a landlord who showed me a dirty apartment.

What does your lease say?

No///

[1bluesky]

If the landlady gives reasonable notice regarding showing the house to potential tenants, OP should oblige. I would not hire someone to get it "professionally cleaned", but wash the dishes, sweep the floors or vacuum, pick up the dirty clothes from the floor, make the bed, etc. Even that is not legally required, but it's a matter of common sense. And if advance notice is not given (generally 24 hours), simply say "no".

I am amused when someone complains about being "offended"; we are not legally prohibited from offending other people, particularly strangers. :)

I think your landlady was actually asking for your help and not demanding it:

You might try to work with her as follows: offer to allow a paid cleaning service in, just before the place is to be shown, to clean it at her expense.

This makes sense to me. And I do not mind doing that.

Initially I allowed her in for the rent purpose (even though I was not obliged by lease agreement), just to be cooperative, to help, to find the solution that everyone is happy with. Now, after she replied that the party was OFFENDED, and stating that it takes 2 days to restore the place in its initial condition ( I have not posted this part of her letter, just to save space and you from having long reading), well that's unreasonable.

Particularly that I doubt that third party said they were offended. It's her own invention... even if they said IT, she should not communicate that to me, if she wanted to be reasonable. Or communicate, but give her own opinion, which she did not, This further means: she backs the OFFENSE that the third party expressed!? I do not take that.

Thank you for a very constructive help.
Cheers.

[Wondergirl]

Potential renters are not to be looking over the apartment to critique your housekeeping, but want to check that the toilet flushes, the sink faucets work and don't drip, that the rooms are big enough to hold their furniture, etc. Potential renters are not your mother. If the bathroom door is missing or there's a horrible pervasive smell or the floors tilt, then comments should be made

[1bluesky]

Potential renters are not to be looking over the apartment to critique your housekeeping, but want to check that the toilet flushes, the sink faucets work and don't drip, that the rooms are big enough to hold their furniture, etc. Potential renters are not your mother. If the bathroom door is missing or there's a horrible pervasive smell or the floors tilt, then comments should be made

That's what I thought. Thanks.

[joypulv]

Her letter was pleasant and reasonable. It is standard for A) a rental to be messy during the packing and getting ready to move and B) for landlords to be allowed a few showings a week with advance notice, and during daylight hours after about 9 am.

I think you are getting worked up over nothing.

I might respond with mention of expected messiness before moving, along with a timeline of your plans to be neat and clean each of the next 3 weeks. If you just can't because of work and so on, say so. Someone looking should be able to see beyond the mess, to see what works and is in good shape overall.

You don't HAVE to be clean. You do HAVE to have no damage, no pet urine, no cigarette and iron burns, no holes in walls, no broken windows or screens, and when you vacate, you BOTH have a walk through to show that it is as clean as when you rented it. It is advised that you take a lot of pictures, if she isn't there to sign an agreement to give you your deposit back. I'm not going to look up BC, but most places allow landlords 30 days to return the deposit.

Anyway, work out something agreeable. She's being nice enough.

[1bluesky]

I think you are getting worked up over nothing.;

I think you missed my point:

What do I do? Do I have to let her in for the purpose of inspecting it even beforethe end of my tenancy term?

so the answer like

Anyway, work out something agreeable.

won't help me much. That's what I am trying to. Yet cannot get what's the best thing...since she is unreasonable in her demand that some was VERY OFFENDED about condition of the apartment and that it WOULD TAKE TWO DAYS to clean it! lol...
So, now she is politely asking me to clean my apartment for the purpose of her renting it. Well, I do not feel like spending extra time and money helping her running her business for free.

Thanks for your help, anyway.

[1bluesky]

here is what I did: I sent her next message:

I am sorry to hear someone was offended by the condition of my dwelling. Particularly I do not think it was in that bad shape, plus the other party should focus on the space and facilities, rather than on the condition of the personal things they are not going to deal with. She must knew that the apartment was occupied by a living human before she accepted your invitation to see it. Also, it is understood that the place would be set up to the living standards before she would move in. ohh, well...

She took personally something that was not meant to be personal. Her fault. The good news is with such an attitude, I think it is better for you not to have such a tenant to deal with. She could be nothing but nuisance.

Now, I am willing to help you further to achieve your goals as I have respect for your needs. I would be happy to let a professional cleaner coming to my place and do the work. This is because the amount of cleaning required now is beyond the time I have. This all at your expense

I will hire pro cleaners at my own expense only after I have moved my stuff out. Particularly knowing that packing always create mess.



Hoping this helps.
Cheers.

[talaniman]

I think its was straight, honest, and reasonable

[joypulv]

Your response sounds good.
(You picked out 2 sentences of mine and glossed right over what I said about legalities and standards.)

[ScottGem]

So, now she is politely asking me to clean my apartment for the purpose of her renting it. Well, I do not feel like spending extra time and money helping her running her business for free.

Thanks for your help, anyway.

I'm sorry but I think you are taking the wrong attitude here. While it may not be codified in law, it is common practice for a tenant to provide some assistance to the landlord in finding a new tenant. This assistance is mainly, allowing the apartment to be shown at reasonable times with reasonable notice and to put the apartment in a tidy condition prior to an appointment.

It is possible she expected you to know this was common practice. She was, therefore, disappointed in what she found. But the bottom line here is I just don't find her requests to be unreasonable. Though, I find your attitude to be less than reasonable.

[1bluesky]

I'm sorry but I think you are taking the wrong attitude here. While it may not be codified in law, it is common practice for a tenant to provide some assistance to the landlord in finding a new tenant. This assistance is mainly, allowing the apartment to be shown at reasonable times with reasonable notice and to put the apartment in a tidy condition prior to an appointment.

It is possible she expected you to know this was common practice. She was, therefore, disappointed in what she found. But the bottom line here is I just don't find her requests to be unreasonable. Though, I find your attitude to be less than reasonable.

Thank you for your feedback. I respect that.
It's kind of strange that YOU KNOW WHAT SHE FOUND in my apartment? Lol

[1bluesky]

Aftermath:

When I sum up all responses, pretty much everyone agreed that the Landlady was nice, polite and reasonable.

The one thing that come across my attention is that no one picked up the feedback of hers that might be kind of offensive to me. That is the statement that the condition of my dwellings were in such shape that it VERY OFFENDED (normal) PEOPLE.

In another words this mean: I am such a pig of a human. This was the message. For those who believe I exaggerate, please try to imagine you in my shoes and when, in official letter, your superior sending you the same message: A reasonable bystander was VERY OFFENDED BY THE CONDITION of your rooms. Wait for a sec or two and see what kind of feeling will come to your mind.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. It certainly helped me arrive to the right response, and that is what I really needed.
Cheers!

[ScottGem]

Yes, I can understand you being offended at that remark. But, you don't know if the landlady felt that way or the prospective tenant. According to the landlady it was the prospective tenant. So this woman clearly was being unreasonable in her expectations. Or maybe she was just using that as an excuse for not wanting the apartment. You don't know and you are getting your dander up over a minor matter. I, for one, picked up on that, but felt it was not as big an issue as you are making it.

And yes I don't know what she saw, nor do I know how untidy it was. But you have admitted it wasn't tidy. So I have to assume there was some clutter.

[1bluesky]

Yes, I can understand you being offended at that remark. But, you don't know if the landlady felt that way or the prospective tenant. According to the landlady it was the prospective tenant...

And that is the whole CATCH (that you missed)! It was the Landlady who COMMUNICATED THAT I AM SUCH A PIG. Even though she has not said it in these words, the message is there. Subtle communication or polite style does not take away anything from the essence of the message, does it.

And now after all she expects of me to do my best to help her running her own business for free (by asking me to bring it to the higher level of cleanliness, without mentioning she would pay for it or otherwise reimburse for my time and expense). Barring the fact that I have already cooperated by letting her in and fixing the dwelling for that purpose.

Any reasonable salesman/serviceman would check the quality of the goods/service before they bring it out on the market. Yet my Landlady didn't. And she appears to be running this services for a while, with having 6 tenants all time? When a serviceman failed to do so, they have no one else to blame for but themselves. Which is not the case in this case. lol

What a prospective tenant might think about me or condition of my dwellings, is absolutely beyond the scope of my attention. BTW, personally I deeply doubt that the prospective tenant mentioned anything close to being VERY OFFENDED. Simply: there would be no point for going for such a statement. If you do not like the rooms, you simply say: thank you, and leave.

I am glad you picked up on that, as that gives me opportunity to point out the hidden hitch that many of you failed to spot. Only Wondergirl and AK Lawyer were among those who got it.
cheers!

P.S. this all my analysis might sound to some of you like making the mountains out of molecules , but situations like this one are the ground that can lead to huge misunderstandings latter, had it not been cleared and dealt with properly on time.

[ScottGem]

No I didn't miss it. I said in my previous response:

But, you don't know if the landlady felt that way or the prospective tenant.

You are so focused on that slight that you are making it the prime issue when it isn't. That's where we, as unbiased observers, come in. We are not trying to minimize the slight against you, but simply to put it in perspective. That, you as a vacating tenant, are expected to allow the apartment to be shown at reasonable times with reasonable notice. That you, as a vacating tenant, are expected to have the apartment tidy for such appointments. This is not helping " her running her own business for free" as you have said repeatedly. This is a reasonable expectation on the part of a landlord from a vacating tenant. This is what you seem to not want to accept. Based on that, I find the landlord's e-mail to be reasonable. You don't need to do a thorough cleaning, just tidy up. You do not have to do it, no law will force you to. But it is something that would be expected from the vacating tenant.

You also need to look at this from the landlady's point of view. Something we are doing that you are not. She wants to get a new tenant in without a gap as she doesn't get rent for a vacant apartment. Your making it difficult for her is costing her money.

You need to step back here and get past your nose being pushed out of joint over the offended comment. You need to understand what is expected of you as the vacating tenant.

[1bluesky]

No I didn't miss it. I said in my previous response:


You are so focused on that slight that you are making it the prime issue when it isn't. That's where we, as unbiased observers, come in. We are not trying to minimize the slight against you, but simply to put it in perspective. That, you as a vacating tenant, are expected to allow the apartment to be shown at reasonable times with reasonable notice. That you, as a vacating tenant, are expected to have the apartment tidy for such appointments. This is not helping " her running her own business for free" as you have said repeatedly. This is a reasonable expectation on the part of a landlord from a vacating tenant. This is what you seem to not want to accept. Based on that, I find the landlord's e-mail to be reasonable. You don't need to do a thorough cleaning, just tidy up. You do not have to do it, no law will force you to. But it is something that would be expected from the vacating tenant.

You also need to look at this from the landlady's point of view. Something we are doing that you are not. She wants to get a new tenant in without a gap as she doesn't get rent for a vacant apartment. Your making it difficult for her is costing her money.

You need to step back here and get past your nose being pushed out of joint over the offended comment. You need to understand what is expected of you as the vacating tenant.

You must be my Landlady. Lol
From landlady's point of view my apartment condition was like a pighouse. From my prospective point of view it was reasonably clean. Now, You side landlady's point of view even though you did not see the apartment. Simple conclusion here is that you are either:

- my landlady
- biased

Thank you for your feedback.

.

[talaniman]

I will give you credit 1bluesky, even though your initial response was highly emotional (and still is to be fair), your return letter was reasonable. The same probably can be applied to the disappointment of your landlady at losing her new tenant. She took ownership of it with her admitting a lack of organization on her part so cut her, AND you some slack as things will continue to unfold until you finally do leave.

You both are challenged to accomplish your different agendas and stressed a bit because of it. That's okay, just stay reasonable as you do. In a month, it won't matter will it? It's so easy to just blow up, but so hard to exercise self control, but so far you have been cool and calm, outwardly at least.

It's hard to maintain, but I bet down the road you are glad you did. Challenging to say the least.

[J_9]

Thread closed.

[ScottGem]

Now, You side landlady's point of view even though you did not see the apartment. Simple conclusion here is that you are either:

- my landlady
- biased

Thank you for your feedback.

.

You are so biased and wrapped up in your own opinion that you can't see the truth here. No I am not your landlady, nor am biased. I am simply looking at both sides and providing advice on how to deal with the situation. While I do see the landlady's point of view as more reasonable than yours (based on the facts as presented by you), I'm not siding with her.

You said

From landlady's point of view my apartment condition was like a pighouse. From my prospective point of view it was reasonably clean.

I really can't see how, based on what you have told us, you think that's the landlady's point of view. And that's where your bias comes through. You got your nose bent out of shape over the comment about the prospective tenant being offended. You are building a mountain out of a molehill based on that. Also now you are say you feel it was "reasonably clean" where you started admitting it was "untidy".

No, I haven't seen the apartment. I don't know what level of untidiness it was in. But I know it wasn't spotless since you admitted it wasn't. If you want to make yourself all upset over the comments either of a stranger or someone you will not longer have to deal with in a few weeks, well that's on you. Tell the landlady that you are in the process of packing and that she and any prospective tenants will have to expect some disorder when they view the apartment. Get a few boxes and place them around the apartment with stuff in them for effect. Then move on.