[paraclete]

come on now, admit it, you don't want immigrants, you want emmigrants

[smoothy]

If they could read and write and were even moderately well educated, as is needed in today's world. It might be a little different. Most of them can barely read and write their own language, much less ours..

[paraclete]

well look at the potential for growth in an education program and your under performing educators wouldn't have to work harder their standards already exceed expectations, you could educate them to go back and lift the IQ of both countries a win-win

[tomder55]

Tal, your "fair immigration policies" are just as ineffective as Tom's "restricting immigration" because neither viewpoint addresses the cause of the problem. The INS has made it impossible for legal immigration applications to be processed in any sort of reasonable amount of time. The 10 year figure officially used is reasonable, except that filing the application now takes three years, getting it accepted now takes another two (unlawfully, it's supposed to be accepted if no action is taken within 90 days), and the whole process starts from zero if a comma is misplaced or an accent mark faces the wrong way. Tal can argue that Govcorp has designed the process to not work that way and Tom can argue that the bloated bureaucracy has made the legitimate process untenable. You'd both be correct, but the current legal process is causing the illegal one.

yes Tal builds that strawman that my opposition to illegal immigration = opposition to immigration. The truth is that I have no issue with streamlining the process.
But there is no denying that the human tragedy unfolding with the wave of children from Central America is a direct result of all these 'Dream Act ' proponents. While media in Honduras El Salvadore and Guatemala tout that the time to run the gauntlet of the Mexican badlands is now ;they are being told amnesty is there for the taking if they make it . There has been NO serious attempt by the administration to counter this pr push. Quite the opposite .... the US EMBASSY in Guatemala has a link to a speech by the emperor stating that our immigration system is broken.

Tal sees immigration laws as restrictions to immigration . I don't . I see them as the only rational response to address the demand

[paraclete]

abandon yourselves to history, you cannot stop those masses, you sold them the dream and now it's going to bite you on the bum, that's what you get for the B/S

[talaniman]

Coyotes making money have nothing to do with the "dreamers" at all and these mostly kids don't even qualify for that status. I think it's the failure of the congress to identify and address these processing issues more effectively, and lets face it, they have addressed very few issues in the last few years, not just immigration. Look around, everybody is running from something, or other around the world seeking a safe haven from wars, gangs, and weak ineffective governance.

Processing people is but a symptom of a much larger global problem we haven't seen since the world wars. At least we haven't paid much attention to it. The root cause is basic poverty, and that's widespread in large pockets across the globe. We have the same firestorm brewing here in the Americas as we have in the middle east, and the far east.

[Catsmine]

seeking a safe haven from ... weak ineffective governance.

Why in the world would they think the U.S. would provide one? Depending on which side of the aisle you sit on, the other side blocks everything. Tal's Republican House versus Tom's Harry Reid Senate really does add up to "weak ineffective governance."

[paraclete]

let us try to rap this up in a nice neat bundle, you have laws therefore it is incumbent upon the administration to enforce those laws, should they fail then you have the ballot box. You don't need more laws so saying there is a stalemate is just a copout

[tomder55]

we have laws . Time to enforce them.

[paraclete]

we are in full agreement Tom

[talaniman]

The laws have flaws, and enforcement of immigration laws have a lower priority than some would wish and are undermanned, and underfunded.

Immigration Reform in President Obama's FY 2015 Budget | Insights | American Action Forum

Republicans Block Ploy To Get Immigration Reform Into Budget

[paraclete]

yes every thing is underfunded until it becomes a priority austerity is a bltch how does it feel to be a third world country unable to protect your borders

[talaniman]

You tell us, since you can't stop the flow of immigrants either, or process them any faster. Or guard your detention centers any better.

[tomder55]

We know our Dems . Children crossing the border ? Time to lower the voting age.

[smoothy]

And who was it... Barbara Boxer or was it Nancy Pelosi that spewed off about allowing Illegals their "Constiutional RIGHT to vote" not all that aweful long ago ... this is why they don't want votor ID's... so all these illegals as well as the NEW illegals can vote for them.

[paraclete]

You tell us, since you can't stop the flow of immigrants either, or process them any faster. Or guard your detention centers any better.

your inward turned media advising you, is it? we have had no illegal immigrant boats for six months, we have begun shutting some detention centres. You can't process someone who deliberately destroys their documents, and please tell me how you guard these centres from internally organised riots, the fact is the locals don't like the attitude of the detainees, whereas all you get is the sheep. You see the way it works to stop them is you can't get on a plane without a passport and a visa, if you come by boat illegally, you will not be resettled here and you will be placed in detention and if you behave in a criminal manner you will have your visa cancelled

[smoothy]

Everyone needs to take it as serious as Malta does... they have been sinking every boat heading their way before they reach their coastal waters.

We need to shoot anyone crossing the border anywhere that's NOT an accepted controlled crossing point.

[paraclete]

yes guard towers and machine guns is the answer, now how do you stop the tunnels?

[cdad]

You stop tunnels with ground penatrating radar and with seismic detection devices. Shutting down the boarder isnt rocket science but it does take determination that up until now one side has been resisting.

[paraclete]

determination, yes, but if you have laws why are they not enforced, does it take an executive order to get anything done. You say one side has been resisting but it isn't as though the illegal immigrant population didn't grow during the republican years too. Was sleepy lax on illegals too. No the problem is bigger