[talaniman]

WRONG! A nut can shoot up schools, movie theaters, and beauty salons, federal buildings, museums, and political rallies in supermarket parking lots suddenly, and with impunity.

All those conceal and carry permits have stopped NOTHING yet.

[smoothy]

WRONG! A nut can shoot up schools, movie theaters, and beauty salons, federal buildings, museums, and political rallies in supermarket parking lots suddenly, and with impunity.

All those conceal and carry permits have stopped NOTHING yet.

FACT... most recent mass shootings have all been in "gun free zones".

Gun free zones protect the criminal element from being shot by legal gun owners. THey offer no protection to the general public in them.

As is abundently clear over the course of history... the criminal elemnet isn't deterred by what any law might say.

YOU can't prove your claim that no single crime has ever NOT been prevented by a concielded carry permit holder. In fact I challenge you to try.

There are thousands of recorded cases where they have... some of them on video. I'd link some right now but unfortunately the corporate firewall blocks the searchs on that topic from the office.

[talaniman]

Is that why some places are making guns legal in bars, churches, and schools, and you can shoot first and ask questions later if you FEEL threatened or afraid?

[smoothy]

Funny how everyplace that has relaxed gun restrictions a significantdrop in crime has resulted.

And yet places where the opposite applies... Like Chicago... remain with sky high violent crime rates.

Lot of good those anti-gun laws do there... huh?

[tomder55]

Everyone else was basically unarmed and the shooters knew it.

15 minutes before assistance arrived . There is no argument against that fact . When seconds count the police are minutes away.

[Catsmine]

All those conceal and carry permits have stopped NOTHING yet.

GUN WATCH: Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens

[paraclete]

what is missing here is that the population hasn't got the message that using guns isn't an acceptable solution to solve your problems and it will only get that message if the right to own a firearm is restricted. So whileever the status quo remains you will have these incidents and large number of people will loose their lives because of gun violence. Sometimes you have to give up "rights" so everyone can be safe

[Catsmine]

what is missing here is that the population hasn't got the message that using guns isn't an acceptable solution to solve your problems and it will only get that message if the right to own a firearm is restricted. So whileever the status quo remains you will have these incidents and large number of people will loose their lives because of gun violence. Sometimes you have to give up "rights" so everyone can be safe

The last few decades here we've been trying that approach, which is a total reversal from one that was effective. The effective approach was called "education." At one point in America nearly every sixth grade (13 year olds, plus/minus) class had a Firearms safety and Marksmanship program presented by NRA certified instructors. (Cue argument about Benjamin Spock, Teachers' Unions, and the NRA) If we get back to that, where going to the range is viewed by kids the same way taking out the garbage or cleaning their room is, firearms will lose their patina of "cool" and we can then do something about the overuse of Ritalin and Ambien that turn soldiers and students into maniacs.

[paraclete]

yes you could do a lot of things to keep you philosopy going or you could reverse the philosopy and do what others have found to be successful. You see your philosopy was created by a frontier society of a few million people, but now you are an urban society of many millions. If you started again today, you would not allow free access to weapons, that right would need to be earned and justified

You see I was trained to use firearms in an environment you speak of, military cadets, but that didn't stop me from doing stupid things with guns before I matured. I have not felt the need to own a weapon for many years because I don't have a use for one, the society I live in is peaceful with a low level of gun violence. I also no longer find the urge to kill something for sport

[smoothy]

what is missing here is that the population hasn't got the message that using guns isn't an acceptable solution to solve your problems and it will only get that message if the right to own a firearm is restricted. So whileever the status quo remains you will have these incidents and large number of people will loose their lives because of gun violence. Sometimes you have to give up "rights" so everyone can be safe

I'm not giving up MY rights... nor are the majority of Americans going to... not to the group of people that think we don't have a right to guns (which we do in the constitution) but do think we do have a right to unlimited use of illegal illicit drugs (which we DON'T under federal law).

[Catsmine]

You see your philosopy was created by a frontier society of a few million people, but now you are an urban society of many millions.

I was talking about 1970, when the population was over 213,000,000. That qualifies as the "many millions," I should think.

Our "philosophy" was created in response to the abuses of YOUR (at the time) government. To this day a good many Americans regard all governments as somewhat illegitimate.

[paraclete]

your sense of history is a little out, our nation came into being after you had that little fracass over there so we didn't have a government at the time but the aboriginees, a primative society in charge at that time, all carried weapons for hunting. Right from the start the carrying of weapons was not the norm in this nation with the result that a peaceful society developed, this was a response to what had happened in your nation.

I understand your long history of violence and war on that continent in the early days, you are a victim of history and paranoid thinking

[Catsmine]

your sense of history is a little out,

My mistake. I had thought the colony was established in 1758, not '88. Still George III, though.

[paraclete]

My mistake. I had thought the colony was established in 1758, not '88. Still George III, though.

Yes mad George had a lot of problems in those days and was fighting a world wide war of which the theatres of action in the americas was only part. He sought to solve some of his problems by starting a new colony, something akin in those days to colonising Mars. The people who were sent here didn't expect to come back and being mainly of a criminal class were not permitted to have arms. This meant that when rebellion came as it inevietably did, it was quickly put down, you see the English had learned from their mistakes and there were no French and Spanish to cheer on the revolt. Also we didn't need to conquer the continent as the natives quickly surrcumbed to grog and disease. In fact what had to conquered was the terrian

[paraclete]

It is interesting that a youth resorted to using a knife in an attack on fellow students. It seems this might not have been premeditated but it was good that someone carrying a gun didn't shoot him.

We can assume that the carrying of knives was banned at that high school, however for the young, rules are made to be broken. The comment I want to make is very obvious. Despite many injuries no one died, had the fellow possessed a gun undoubtedly many would have died. This is truly the other side of the gun, when guns aren't present fewer people die

[smoothy]

I used to do some electronic Engineering work in that town for a while... a couple decades ago. I know that area fairly well.

[paraclete]

and.. ... is there some insight on this incident you want to share?

[smoothy]

Nope... not really... I blame it on the politically coprrect movement and the people who don't believe in punishing kids who misbehave.

We used to be allowed to have knives when I was in school.., you was almost obligated by the guy code to make at least one hunting knife as a metalshop project, and nobody ever thought of doing that to anyone else... you could have two guys with knife have a fight... and they would never come out of their pockets... it was mano a mano... if you got your butt whipped you were a man and accepted it.

[paraclete]

Yes not many men around these days, we could come up with some reasons but there might be objections. It is the result of living in a matriachal society

[tomder55]

time to ban assault knives .