[choosinganangel]

Yes, but if the Judge is signing it, knowing that I'm asking for compliance and enforcement of the Decree attached, doesn't that mean he either comes into compliance or else? I mean why else would a judge sign an order like that? If my original Decree was of no value anymore, then why even order the show cause, being he could have just dismissed it.?

Attachment 45655Attachment 45656Attachment 45657Attachment 45658

[ScottGem]

We have been trying to explain this to you from the beginning. There are 2 sides to any civil action a judge needs to hear both sides before he can rule. Hence the show cause order. The show cause order is basically saying I've seen the movant's side, now I want to hear your side before I make a ruling. I don't know that he will be able to satisfy a judge that his actions were valid. Based on what you have said, I don't think he can. But I don't know what evidence he will present. If you had an attorney he would probably file a motion for discovery to try and force him to present his case before the April 10th hearing so you can prepare a case to counter his.

The show cause order is just the next step in the process. It's a good step for you, but we don't know what he will do. He could file a bunch of motions delaying the meeting, he could file a counter motion, he could run. We don't know. That's why we've been urging you to get clarification from the court.

I've looked at the attached documents. You are asking the court to issue a show cause order why he should not be held in contempt. I'm not sure that a Show cause was necessary. You may have just asked him to hold him in contempt and issue a warrant for his arrest since he clearly violated the custody order. But not being there, I can't say for sure which was the right thing to do. But the bottom line is that this is the course that has been taken so you need to see it through. I know the next 2 months are going to hell on you. But there is now some light at the end of the tunnel. The only thing I would do is what I advised earlier to try and get the judge to require that the child be brought to the hearing.

[choosinganangel]

Okay, how do I get him to do that? A letter? I mean, I'd rather him give me custody of the child until the hearing, considering I'm not the one in contempt here, and certainly have no reason to run considering I'm the one fighting like heck to get this done. How do I ask him to hold him in contempt and issue a warrant? What legal forms should I get and where do I find them? I called the court today and they are like "sorry we don't have writs" which we have here, and I'm like, OK, so if a kidnapper has a child, you have to give him notice of a hearing before you pick up the kidnapped kid? Lmao She didn't like that too much. But I'm sorry, court clerks are clearly supposed to advise you as to what documents they have on hand, or applications are available for emergency recovery of something that's yours. They clearly gave him docs for an emergency ex parte custody order... back when, which were full of lies. Perhaps, I should just do those, and go up tomorrow to get them signed. Cause yes, they child has lived in Wyoming for 6 months or more, the child is in danger of being taken out of this state without notice, the father has concealed the child in alias name, the child is not getting adequate medical and or dental/mental care, child is in fear for his life that his kidnapper refuses his requests to see his mother,. yeah? No? Lol

[smoothy]

Why don't you just hire a lawyer... They have the experience... they know EXACTLY what to do... and they will get much better results than the Do-It-Yourself approach.

I do most things myself... this is one of those things I'd never consider doing myself. You have too much to lose. I'd want the best representation I could afford. If one side has a lawyer and the other doesn't...the deck is stacked in favor of those with the lawyer.

[stinawords]

You already have a hearing date! That is great news! Your next step is to show up at the hearing. The judge already left the child in his care eight years ago. I know you felt that you were close and that because you made a motion the judge would give you everything you wanted. The reality of the case is, like Scott said, there are two sides of the story. That is why the judge ordered the hearing. April isn't that far away. You even just said that he got papers from the clerk. Up until now you have made it out that he just went to the computer typed a few things out and passes them off as legal. That right there is an example of why there are hearings.

[choosinganangel]

Yeah, but just cause he got papers, didn't mean they were at all legal in all of his claims. Everyone of his statements were untrue, whereas mine wouldn't be, and obviously what I'm trying to point out is, if the man an change a kids name, make him fear to ask to see his own mother, alienate him from his brothers, viciously lie and make liable claims, and all the while, try to act like the first decree never existed, I mean, what else is he going to do? You do know he's collecting social security for the child (illegal), medicaid(he makes over 4000 a month) illegal, (took the kid across state lines) felony, (wrote up papers that don't say anything at all of what the judge even said in the court that day... not even a stitch... )head on platter illegal, and here's where the kicker comes in, and think about this long and hard...

If your son's mother called the state police to your house at 11:30 at night, claiming you had kidnapped her child, and you get them to believe that you had a legal order, and say she's nuts and a drug addict and all kinds of crap (which is also in his fake order) no judge would ever do that mind you....WOULD YOU THEN CALL HER THE NEXT DAY AND PLACE NICEY NICEY AND ARRANGE A VISITATION? ...............ONLY IF YOU WERE A KIDNAPPER WANTING HER TO CALM DOWN AND GET THE POLICE TO BACK OFF :D Funny thing of it all is, when he called the next day, I was at the police station filling out a kidnapping report, and he never once mentioned that the police had been to his door... IF THAT'S NOT TELLING, I'M NOT SURE WHAT IS :D

[choosinganangel]

Oh and mind you, I never got a hearing date for the ex-parte order he put in. The first time I ever went to court was 5 months 29 days later... now if that isn't illegal I don't know what is. Yeah, I have recording after recording of him beating me down verbally and emotionally all because I wanted to arrange to see my kid and he would never let me talk to my kid until I finally put on my Facebook wall that he was holding my child hostage, and his sister was a "friend" of mine at that time, and she was watching very closely... and when I kept on with a 500 page book of facts about her brother who involved her in a kidnapping scheme, she called my son, only to find he wasn't answering his phone, then called her brother and told him what I was saying, and wouldn't you know... 5 minutes later, my son calls saying his dad keeps his phone in his room cause he "has a special way of charging it". No HE ERASED ALL MY CALLS, TEXTS, PICTURE MESSAGES AND ANY PROOF THAT I HAD DILIGENTLY TRIED TO KEEP IN TOUCH WITH MY CHILD... oh yeah baby, kidnapping 101

[choosinganangel]

I''m seriously trying to get this stip and agreement up here, so you guys can see it, but it doesn't have an option to insert file... what do I do?

[ScottGem]

Again you are going over the same ground you have gone over before. We believe you. We believe he kidnapped your child. You have to stop getting emotional, you have to deal only in provable facts.

As for trying to get a warrant issued, I don't know how you would have done that. The time to do that was when you got out of the hospital and he refused to return the child. Its too late now. You asked the court to issue a show cause order. The court did. You can't go back now and say; I really wanted to ask for a warrant. You got what you asked for so now you prepare for the hearing. You start with the original decree. You show that he didn't have a valid order modifying that decree when he took the child. You show that you were never served with papers of a hearing to modify the decree. You show that whatever court papers he filed were full of false allegations.

You go into court prepared to show these things, but its not up to you to do so. Its up to him to show why he shouldn't be held in contempt. HE has to convince the court why he wasn't in contempt. The only way I think he can do that is by showing a valid court order awarding him custody.

The only thing I think you can do now is what I have said before. Ask the judge to order him to bring the child to the hearing. Otherwise you just need to prepare to counter anything he is going to offer the court.

[ScottGem]

I''m seriously trying to get this stip and agreement up here, so you guys can see it, but it doesn't have an option to insert file... what do I do?

Click to reply. Make sure you press to Go advanced. Then you will see options to Manage Attachments.

But you really don't need to show us anymore.

[ScottGem]

You did it right, but I had to remove it. The black out didn't work and I could read the names. I didn't read any further but immediately deleted the post. Again, you don't need to post the original decree. It doesn't help us help you any further.

[ScottGem]

I was able to read the decree and I have a couple of questions. In the 5 years between the issuance of the decree and when he took custody of the child, did he ask for visitation in accordance to the decree and did you grant such visitation? Also, was the name changed as required in the decree?

[choosinganangel]

20-5-304. Temporary emergency jurisdiction.

(a) A court of this state has temporary emergency jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and the child has been abandoned or it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, the child's sibling or a parent of the child is subjected to or threatened with mistreatment or abuse.

(b) If there is no previous child custody determination that is entitled to be enforced under this act and a child custody proceeding has not been commenced in a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303, a child custody determination made under this section remains in effect until an order is obtained from a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303. If a child custody proceeding has not been or is not commenced in a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303, a child custody determination made under this section becomes a final determination, if it so provides and this state becomes the home state of the child.

(c) If there is a previous child custody determination that is entitled to be enforced under this act, or a child custody proceeding has been commenced in a court of a state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303, any order issued by a court of this state under this section shall specify in the order a period that the court considers adequate to allow the person seeking an order to obtain an order from the state having jurisdiction under a provision of law from that state that is in substantial conformity with W.S. 20-5-301 through 20-5-303. The order issued in this state remains in effect until an order is obtained from the other state within the period specified or the period expires. Wyoming Statutes citing reference

[ScottGem]

So what does 20-5-304 have to do with this situation? Can you prove the child is being subjected to or threatened with abuse? Plus according to you he is not in WY so it doesn't apply.

[choosinganangel]

Sorry had to work for a minute, so I couldn't get back to you till now, but yeah, that's what his "attorney" came back at me with when I put in my motion to dismiss based on improper venue. Lol Those statutes don't apply at all. Our agreement and decree all say you can only bring a motion pursuant to "That each of the parties, and both of them, understand
their rights to petition the Court to enforce and/or modify the
terms of any Court Order or Decree pursuant to the provisions of
Wyoming Statute §§20-2-201 through -204 and -311(d) (and any
amendments thereto), and that any such modification may not be
effective prior to the date of filing an appropriate motion or
petition for modification."


His ATTORNEY WROTE THIS:

The Defendant's motion is mistaken and
Proper venue is in the above-entitled court pursuant to the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction and
Enforcement Act, W.S. § 20-5-201 et seq. particularly W.S. § 20-5-302 and 20-5-303.

[choosinganangel]

20-5-302. Exclusive, continuing jurisdiction.

(a) Except as provided in W.S. 20-5-304, a court of this state which has made a child custody determination consistent with W.S. 20-5-301 or 20-5-303 has exclusive, continuing jurisdiction over the determination until:

(I) A court of this state determines that the child, the child's parents and any person acting as a parent do not have a significant connection with this state and that substantial evidence is no longer available in this state concerning the child's care, protection, training and personal relationships; or

(ii) A court of this state or a court of another state determines that the child, the child's parents and any person acting as a parent do not presently reside in this state.

(b) A court of this state which has made a child custody determination and does not have exclusive, continuing jurisdiction under this section may modify that determination only if it has jurisdiction to make an initial determination under W.S. 20-5-301.

[choosinganangel]

His father took him to Wyoming when he kidnapped him! I lived in Utah, for more than 4 years prior to this happening, with the child and had sole legal and physical custody. Point is, The determination was already made. I did not have a significant connection with that state nor did my child anymore... which applies to 20-5-302, so they didn't have jurisdiction. They have jurisdiction right now, cause my kid is being held in Wyoming... so yeah... big trouble he's in, and his attorney lmao

[cdad]

Was the father of the child living in Wy before all these court orders from his side were created ?

[ScottGem]

No use rehashing what happened in 2006. I'm not going to even get into the ways that might have been fought because its water under the bridge. The child now lives in WY and has reestablished residence there. The original decree was issued in WY so WY still has jurisdiction until they say they don't. So you have a court in WY that has ordered him to appear on 4/10 and show cause why he shouldn't be held in contempt of the original decree. As far as I can tell based solely on what you have told us, he doesn't have cause. The only way he could take the child, even for a visit, was with your permission and 24 hours notice. For him to refuse to return the child without a valid court order awarding him custody was also a violation of the original decree. I have no clue what, if anything, he will claim if he shows up in court. But those are the two key points. He has to show the judge justification (according to the terms of the decree) for taking the child and keeping him.

That is what you need to concentrate on now.

You didn't answer my questions in post 112.

Let me just address this:

I did not have a significant connection with that state nor did my child anymore... which applies to 20-5-302, so they didn't have jurisdiction.

That's not necessarily true. If he remained in WY the whole time, then as long as one parent remained in the jurisdiction of the original decree, that jurisdiction remains. So if you filed in UT, then his attorney may have been right. You should have gone to WY to enforce the decree in 2006.

[stinawords]

As we have said before, the original order was in WY where you all lived. The jurisdiction does not change just because you and the child moved. The father stayed in WY. WY kept it's jurisdiction. The fight has had to have taken place in WY the entire time. Now, again like I said yesterday, you have a hearing set in less than two months... just show up. Be ready to counter what he says but make sure you understand that the jurisdiction did not change so you can't argue that. His lawyer isn't in trouble for sending you something telling you WY has jurisdiction. It is true. You would have had to go to court a very long time ago to petition for a change in jurisdiction while you still had the child. That is not the case.

So, one more time, go to the hearing in April. That is your next step. Don't argue with the judge. Keep your head attached and emotions in check while there. If you let your emotions get the best of you you'll have a hard time thinking straight enough to counter any of his claims.

I agree that based only on what you have said, unless he can show proof that he did actually file the papers before picking up the child, he has little to stand on. So make your hotel reservations since you know when you'll be there now!

Good luck in April!