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Bluerose · Mar 31, 2007, 02:41 AM

I am posting this on behalf of my sister.

She Wrote -

Where do I stand if I decide to stand up to them and say enough is enough?

This is the short version, I will go into more detail as we go along. I hope you can help me. I am in need of some serious advice.

Got 2 grandchildren living with me 6 & 10. Dad in prison, mum (my daughter) on drink and drugs unfit to take care of children.

Have a whole squad of people involved - all to do with the kids or my daughter. Don't seem to have anyone I can get some impartial advice from.

I have a nice home, gave up a very well paying job to take care of the children.

I am taking care of the kids and trying to help my daughter whenever I can. I'm told I have to forget about my daughter and concentrate on the kids.

I have meetings at my house, the most people to date who have attended was 18! In one meeting. I feel so overwhelmed by them all at times.

The kids are seeing therapists.

I have them in after school clubs which they enjoy. They also have a weekly visit with mum and they visit their dad in prison on occasion.

My problem is that I don't agree with some of the things being done, said and asked - I have had to relate my own life and childhood to them.

They all sit there asking questions about me my past, my family, the kids and my children.. and then proceed to fill in forms.

I am getting very angry with the whole thing but do not want to upset anyone because I have the threat hanging over my head that they might change their minds any day and place the children with a stranger. I don’t have custody yet.

I'll leave it there for the moment and hope to hear from someone in the know very soon. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

If they would all go away, the kids and I would do just fine.

tickle · Mar 31, 2007, 03:28 AM

Can you let us know at what stage the custody hearing is in? It sounds as if you are between a rock and a hard spot in this mess. It sounds as if you are doing all you can for the grandchildren but why all the meetings in your home ? Are they from childrens' aid?

Bluerose · Mar 31, 2007, 07:03 AM

"Can you let us know at what stage the custody hearing is in? It sounds as if you are between a rock and a hard spot in this mess. It sounds as if you are doing all you can for the grandchildren but why all the meetings in your home ? Are they from childrens' aid?"

My sister is not always available. If I may I would like to answer what questions I can on her behalf. We are in UK. This may make a difference to anyone giving advice from outside the UK.

She is being bombarded with the type of custody she should go for. On the other hand she has her daughter against custody because she is afraid of losing her children. She is having trouble getting her head around what her mum, my sister, is trying to do. She is afraid of losing her children. We have trouble making her understand that if her mum doesn't have them, they might be placed with foster parents.

Social services is involved. Children were take from parents, grandma said she would have them. The fist couple of meeting held in her home, we believe, was to make sure it would be a safe and good environment for the children. My sister has a lovely home, the children's bedroom is fixed up very nice. She takes very good care of them.

The 18 people were social services, someone from kids school, each child has an appointed guardian and a welfare worker each, and a therapist each, two or three people who are appointed as impartial advisers. Personally it just seems like a lot of fuss for nothing. Overkill.

Okay their parents have their problems but we are a big close family. I am the oldest of five, we all have children and we all have grandchildren. I too have a grandchild living with me, his choice, he will be 14 soon and has been with me for two years. I did got to court to get a residency order but I never had no where near the hassle my sister is having.

They tell her what to do, what meetings to attend, send her on courses, and tell her who she can and can't leave the children with while she attends meetings that they set up at the strangest times - like when she has to get the kids to school.

My sister and I are in our fifties, we need help taking care of children again, it's not like the help isn't there. We can and do help each other a lot. But that doesn't seem to matter to these people.

I have personally thought about telling her to stand up to them and ask them to back off a bit because she is doing just fine. But I think she might have enough people telling her what to do right now.

She is beginning to wonder how other people would deal with the situation so I suggested putting it on this board.

Thank you for your time.

excon · Mar 31, 2007, 07:22 AM

Hello blue:

I don't think child raising by committee works. Especially when most of the committeemen are worrying about covering their butts instead of the children. However, we've bureaucratized our systems to the point where they don't work.

Maybe we should bring in some consultants to prepare a study...

Sorry to be so cynical, blue, but maybe she should move with the kids to Fiji.

excon

Bluerose · Mar 31, 2007, 08:05 AM

excon,

Thanks. Lol

If it was up to me and I was in my sister's position, I think I would just stand up to them. Tell them all where to go. There are a lot of kids out there a lot worse off. We are quite a big family, we help each other. We can do this without these people. I wanted to encourage her in that direction but I'm not sure she can handle that at the moment.

Thanks.

ordinaryguy · Mar 31, 2007, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by bluerose

If it was up to me and I was in my sister's position, I think I would just stand up to them. Tell them all where to go. There are a lot of kids out there a lot worse off. We are quite a big family, we help each other. We can do this without these people. I wanted to encourage her in that direction but I'm not sure she can handle that at the moment.

I'm afraid it's too late to tell them to just butt out. They are already involved, and legally, they have to follow it through, regardless of how absurd or counterproductive the outcome may be. I think the best you and your sister can do is try to convince the bureaucrats that you really do have the children's best interests at heart, and that you have the physical, emotional and financial capability to provide for them what they need. I know it's bound to be frustrating to be investigated like a criminal when you're trying to step up and do right by your grandchildren, but that's the way the system works and I don't see that picking a fight with the bureaucracy is going to lead to anything positive for you or the children. I wish you all the best in a very difficult situation.

Bluerose · Mar 31, 2007, 10:18 AM

ordinaryguy,

I guess you're right. Might just make things worse. I will just try to help her and hope that it all sorts itself out soon.

talaniman · Mar 31, 2007, 10:47 AM

It sounds as though this is a necessary step in getting legal custody, in which case you have to go through the proper steps. If so bite the bullet, and hang in there.

grammadidi · Mar 31, 2007, 11:14 AM

Who does your sister have?? Is there anyone in that whole process that she can say "Look, I have to be honest with you. Having 18 people in the house throwing questions at me is really beginning to overwhelm me."

From a different perspective I can actually see the value in all of this. Everyone learns the same information at the same time and they can all work together to offer the kids, their mom and your sister what they need while ensuring that the kids are in the best situation. It is also probably best that the meetings aren't with each organization separately. Can you imagine how many meetings she would have to attend then!! What they don't understand is that it IS very overwhelming at times.

I do think it is good to have each child have their own guardians, but I can't understand why they each have to have separate therapists and welfare workers. She could address this in one of the meetings. I think it's GREAT that the school is there, as well as impartial advisors, too.

How long is this expected to continue? I understand that her daughter is struggling with the custody issue, but it really is in the kids best interests at this point. A temporary custody order with regular, supervised visitations, a request that she gets into a treatment program followed with weekly drug tests, and a review every six months might help her feel better.

My guess is they are concerned with what happens if/when the father gets out of jail as well as the fact that your sister helps her daughter as much as she is able. They probably want her to back off so that her daughter hits bottom and makes the changes necessary to work towards getting her children back. They may (and I certainly hope not!) feel that your sister may not be a good parent because her daughter is an addict who married a con! (Nothing like blaming the victims!)

Do you have support groups for Grandparents raising grandchildren in the UK? I know there used to be. If not, there are some good online support groups both in the U.S. Canada and I think even Australian & New Zealand that she could join for emotional support if nothing else. (You too!) It might be an idea that she could talk to the impartial advisors for input and advice.

As for them making appointments, sending her to classes, telling her what to do... she does have the right to question these, say she doesn't feel that they are necessary and why, etc. She should be adamant that the 'meetings' must be done while the children are in school. I know it sounds even more overwhelming, but I really do think she needs an advocate of some kind there for her, too. It doesn't matter who they are, just having someone to support her concerns, etc. would be valuable.

Hope this helps, but I know it is an awfully complicated process!

Love, Didi

louie1 · Mar 31, 2007, 02:07 PM

Hang in there whilst these processes take time and are invasive to your own life it will all be worth it to see your grandchildren happy in your care. It is a sad world that causes our children not to be able to take care of their own but you are doing what comes naturally looking after your own! Your daughter will eventually learn to give up what she currently relies on and pull herself together until then concentrate on those beautiful babies and do whatever it takes to make them feel secure!

Don't forget to take time for you, even if it is only 10 minutes in a hot bath you must be exhausted!

Bluerose · Apr 1, 2007, 04:31 AM

Talaniman,

"It sounds as though this is a necessary step in getting legal custody, in which case you have to go thru the proper steps. If so bite the bullet, and hang in there."

I think you may be right. I was all ready just to throw in my 2 pence worth but she has enough to deal with. I have heard you all and decided just to continue to do what I can to help. And try to be a good ear when she becomes overwhelmed and feels like venting.

Thank you for helping me put the brakes on. I think you're right, it would only make things worse.

I will, instead, encourage her to keep her eye on the end goal - the kids.

Bluerose · Apr 1, 2007, 04:47 AM

Didi,

Thank you. You made some really good points there. I will share them with her soon, and hope it helps her to put things a little more into perspective and avoid being so overwhelmed my them all.

Bluerose · Apr 1, 2007, 05:05 AM

louie1,

"It is a sad world that causes our children not to be able to take care of their own but you are doing what comes naturally looking after your own!! your daughter will eventually learn to give up what she currently relies on and pull herself together until then concentrate on those beautiful babies and do whatever it takes to make them feel secure!!"

Thank you. That gave me goose bumps. I will pass this on to my sister. I'm sure all of you lovely people's words will help her take stock of her situation. It has also helped me to know what I should do to help and not just add to the situation. Thank you, all.

grammadidi · Apr 1, 2007, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by bluerose

Didi,

Thank you. You made some really good points there. I will share them with her soon, and hope it helps her to put things a little more into perspective and avoid being so overwhelmed my them all.

You are welcome. I hope so too! Just let her know that despite feeling overwhelmed, she DOES have a voice in all of this. If she doesn't speak up they may see it as a weakness. I think she needs to be as open and honest as possible. They don't expect her to be a superwoman, but sometimes 'we' fool them into thinking we are then don't know what to do with it when we know we can't keep it up! (Been there, done that!) :)

I would love to be kept updated on this situation. As another grandparent who took on a grandchild, I feel like I have a vested interest. :rolleyes: Heehee!

Love, Didi

Bluerose · Apr 1, 2007, 05:53 PM

Didi,

Will do. I took in one of my grandchildren too. Think I covered his story already. Mind sharing some of yours? Only if you want to and only as much as you are comfortable with.

talaniman · Apr 1, 2007, 07:44 PM

As a grandparent trying to do the best for them, I can only say never give up! As hard as it is sometimes my children and their kids, are so well worth it. Don't quit on them just because it gets hard to do. Please don't!!

Bluerose · Apr 8, 2007, 03:56 AM

No intentions of quitting, talaniman. Thanks for the support.

Didi,

Thanks for sharing and for all your advice. Sooo helpful.

grammadidi · Apr 8, 2007, 04:58 PM

You are most welcome. Please feel free to share any of the personal information that I shared with you to your sister. I am here if you/her need me.

Love, Didi

Bluerose · Jun 24, 2007, 09:02 PM

Update:

My sister's daughter went into rehab, is still struggling a bit but is beginning to see that the children are being well taken care of. My sister is coping better, and is standing up for herself more. The kids are more relaxed and look happy. Dad is out of prison and is doing better than mum at the moment. He thinks he can help her. We have our fingers crossed.

The bad news, my sister's daughter is pregnant again! She won't be allowed to keep the baby but she can't take that in and is planning for it's arrival and thinks she will have the kids back and they will all be one big happy family. I'm afraid she is in for a very rude awakening. And all I can do is be there for my sister. So sad. Such a sad situation.

ordinaryguy · Jun 25, 2007, 04:42 AM

Hi Blue. Thanks for the update. It is a sad situation as you say, but you and your sister are doing good and necessary work, so don't despair. Did your sister get legal custody of the children? I suppose when the new one arrives it will be a whole new circus to determine custody arrangements.