[cjpriceless]

Hi there,
I have a 5-speed 1988 Honda Accord LXi with pretty high miles, but has been running great for the 8 or so months I've owned it. However, yesterday when I was driving to town it stalled at the stop sign. This stall was kind of out of the blue, because I did not let out the clutch too fast or anything. Then when I tried starting it there was this low pitched thud sound as it kind of started... it did this about two or three times, and then when my friend and I pushed my car back out of the road it stopped doing the thud when I tried to start it, and instead it would just turn over and not start. I have plenty of gas, and I added more oil yesterday after all of this happened. The belts seem to all spin when you turn the key. My main thought is that it is the timing belt, since I'm not really sure when it was last replaced and those are notorious for going on on Hondas after a bit. The other thought I had was that maybe it is the spark plugs, since it seems that it turns over just fine, just doesn't get that spark. But that wouldn't really explain the thud sounds before when I tried to start it. I really need someone's help on this one... I'm kind of low on cash and need to get this car back in service without spending a fortune.
Thanks,

Casey

[labman]

Does it have a distributor? You may need a helper. Pull the cap off, and one of you watch the distributor insides while the other cranks. If the rotor doesn't turn, the timing belt is broke, sorry. If it does turn, while you have the cap off, clean the contacts, and inspect the center one. Then work your way from the spark plug wires back to the ignition key, trying to see where you don't have the voltage you should. Let me know what you find. I am not real familiar with Hondas, and will need help on how yours should work.

[thebriggsdude]

Yeah it sounds like the belt broke :(

[cjpriceless]

Any idea where the distributor is in this model? I'm not too familiar with stuff under the hood, so I'm just going by what I find in the manual and such. Thanks.

[thebriggsdude]

Well it depends on the engine, not familiar with hondas but if it's a frontwheel drive side installed engine some will be on the front towards the front of the car or on the back opposite the pulleys and belts, if it's a rear wheel drive, most likely in the back, you'll probably have to remove some engine cover to see it since newer auto's are all covered up engine wise, sad thing I know I hate them when they're covered :(

[labman]

I would think an 88 would have a distributor. Most newer cars don't. If you have spark plug wires, follow them to where they come from. If it is an oblong box, it doesn't have a distributor. If it is sort of round or multisided, that is the distributor. It should have 2 clips or screws that hold the cap on. Remove them and you should be able to pull the cap off. Inside it should have a contact on top that turns from one wire to another. It is driven by the cam, and should turn when the engine does.

[cjpriceless]

Well, I traced the cables back which was pretty easy... because they or only around 2 feet long. The go to this weird shaped metal thing on the opposite side of the engine than those of the pulleys and belts. I looked at it to see if it is removable, and I'm sure it is somehow, but it wasn't very straightforward. Does this sound like it could be the distributor? How big is this thing supposed to be? And also, is there any other way to find out if it's the timing belt besides removing anything? Thanks.

[labman]

Distributor caps are plastic not metal, maybe hard shiny, black plastic. There will be fingers that stick up in a circle with the wires coming out of them. A metal box likely is just a coil housing. Some cars have an inspection port for the belt. It will be at the end of the engine with any other belts, not the transmission end. We need help from some of the other Honda owners here to describe it. Is the oil filler in the valve cover? Take the cap off, and you may be able to see some of the valve gear or the cam itself. Again, one watch while the other turns the engine over. If you see any movement, the belt is OK. Valve covers are either stamped steel, or cast aluminum. There may be 2 with the spark plug wires going down between them. A valve cover may not be too bad to take off. You will be able to see the valve stems inside their springs as well as the cam shaft itself. Again, turn the engine over ahd hope to see movement. The valve cover will need a new gasket and be careful no to tighten up the bolts too much putting it back on.

[CroCivic91]

Labman said it right, a distributor cap is a black plastic thing that your spark plug wires connect to. On a Civic '90, you have to undo 3 bolts to remove the cap, one is on the upper left side, one on the middle right, and one is just under. If you have problems reaching the 3rd bolt, you might have to remove the battery (if it's in the way, I know it IS in the way on a Civic '90).

[thebriggsdude]

Yeah they are all plastic and held on by very few bolts. The distributor is just that your distributor driven by a belt or direct driven from the engine and distributes spark to every plug at the right time the piston comes up to compress and when the distributor screwed, you are in that fact of the matter. :D

[cjpriceless]

Ok so I'm pretty sure I found what you guys are talking about. It has the 4 spark plug wires running back to it and it is plastic. It is bolted to a metal base with two small bolts. So am I safe to unbolt these two things, or am I going to break a seal or something?

[thebriggsdude]

Most of the time they use maybe a rubber seal, should not hurt to open it but don't loose anything, you'll be hating yourself later if you do. :o

[cjpriceless]

Ok good and bad news... got that off, one of the screws was stipped but fortunately it was a hex screw do I used a socket wrench to get it off. Anyhow, my mom tried to start my car while I watched that part, and the rotor or whatever is inside of this did spin. So that would mean that it in fact is not the timing belt, right? And if it isn't that, what else could it be? The alternator has recently been replaced and it seems to have a good charge and not be running out of power. Just not getting through though. Thanks.

[thebriggsdude]

Does the plugs fire off a spark, hold them with rubber handled pliers or either lay them on a plastic surface, no metal or your hands now. If they fire then it may be something else. Maybe fuel delivery. If they don't the distributor may need rebuilding or the points cleaned or replaced. And also if the plugs are of some age and I mean old they may need replacing as well and the wires if they are old and cracked. Or could be the engine's off timing forgot that :o

[labman]

Great, I am glad to hear the distributor is turning. Timing belts are expensive, and sometimes other parts of the engine are damaged. Now it is on to spark and gas. Easiest thing is to pull a wire off a spark plug and crank the engine over with the end near something grounded. You may need to pull the boot back or put something metal in it so the spark doesn't have more than 1/4 inch to jump. It needs to be a nice blue spark. If no spark there, try the end of the cable in the middle of the distributor. If no spark, follow it back to the coil. Check for 12 volts at the small wires on the coil. If no power there with the key on, 6 volts may be OK, work your way back to the ignition switch. There is a relay under the dash that is troublesome on some Hondas.

If you have spark, then check for gas. Carburetors are easier. Remove the air cleaner, and work the throttle with your hand. If you see gas squirt in, the gas is OK. You may have to push open a plate to see very far into the carburetor. It is the choke plate. If it doesn't want to close when the engine is cold, that could be the problem. Try working it with your hand and see if it wants to stay closed then.

With fuel injection, you must remove a fuel injector, maybe the whole rail with multiport. Point it away from the car, your eyes, and any thing hot or electrical, and have someone crank the car. Gas should squirt out. I said be careful where your point it. No gas, look at the fuel pump, fuses, etc. Also recheck the relay under the dash.

Let us know what you find.

[cjpriceless]

I have not had a chance to try out any of this yet, because it is now too dark and cold out to do much of anything at all. I really appreciate the tips though. So with the spark plug stuff... do I just pull off the wire running to the plug and try to start the car and see if there is a spark? Also, what would explain the thud and weird noises when it first broke down? Thanks.

[thebriggsdude]

Umm well you take the plug out and leave it connected with the wire, thud, oops forgot that ooooooooooooh :o that would be a lot of things, was it a bump kind of thud or a clank kind of thud :( most of the time if it was a clank that means something big. :( check for spark and if you have a automotive compression preassure tester test each cylinder if it was a clank thud and check the oil for metal shavings, if it was a bump well it could have been just the engine rocking back and fourth and knocked a connection loose. Thuds will mean lots of things.

[cjpriceless]

Ok I'll give that a try tomorrow. The thud was a low pitched sound, kind of like if you were shifting from first to second and accidentally put it in fourth, and so the engine sound was were low pitched opposed to its normal mid-high pitched sound. Not really a clang sound though, more of a bump type. Any idea of what else might have caused this? It doesn't seem like it would be electrical shorting, just because of the nature of the weird thud sound. And I'm thinking its not an issue with fuel, because if I get the gas a few pumps before starting then when you go back to the hood you can smell the gas, and it turns over just fine.

[thebriggsdude]

Umm you really shouldn't be able to smell the gas, that bump may have been a rock or something knocking a fuel line or something aloose and stalled the engine. Even on my carbe'd car I smell little to no gas. You might have a fuel line cut, ruptured, or either popped off, I'd suggest checking to see if the injectors get fuel before you try the plugs. If you smell fuel then it's the fuel. That would explain the thud and the gas smell and stalling. :( do not if its leaking gas, you might should try starting it while you look under the car for gas squirting and then leave it alone if you do. Get it towed or fixed right there. You don't want a really bad thing to happen now with gas. If it was me I would be able to fix it but for you if its leaking fuel your best bet is to get a pro to do it. Check the fuel first though, if you smell fuel that would make me look at the lines or either under it and see while starting it. Check like labman said the fuel rail if equipped or the fuel injectors and throttle body if throttle body injected. Is the fuel smell really pungent and noticeable or is it not hardly at all. If its noticeable while the hoods down and all shut up fuel problem. I would highly suggest all of the above.

[CroCivic91]

The underdash relay labman was talking about is a Main Relay. The problem that relay cab cause is when you try to start the car in a hot day, or just after you turned the engine off, the engine won't start, or will start but will immediately stop. The way you fix it is like this: you locate the relay (it took me 1 hour to locate it actually), take it out (another 1 hour of work, it's in an extremely inaccessible location), open it up, resolder all the joints (that was the easiest part) and put it back in (it was actually easier putting it back in than it was taking it out). Now where do you find the relay? It is under the dash, behind the coin tray (which is by your left knee when you sit in the car), above the thing you pull to pop your hood. You have to unbolt the 3 bolts on the coin tray and remove the coin tray. You will be able to see about 20-25% of the main relay when you do that. It is a black box with Mitsub-something written on it (it says Main Relay on it too). It holds to this metal piece with one bolt, which you undo and disconnect the wiring harness from it, and pull the relay out.

Well, if you have problems starting the car in the summer, you could do it, and it might help you with this too.