[joypulv]

Dave, I would like to know what you think about the nature of your grief in terms of regrets and guilt.
I have spent most of my 67 years trying to sort out grief, regret, and guilt.
I have decided that grief alone evolves from anguish to sweet sadness and acceptance.
But grief is almost always mixed with the other two. We wish we had said more, done more, been there to stop death, and so on.
Regrets to my mind are concrete 'things' we can pinpoint, hash out, define, and hopefully resolve.
Guilt on the other hand is an elusive poison! It tends to be vague (unless we are truly the one who brought on the death, such as by murder or driving drunk).

Dave, you didn't get to show your dad that you were not going to be the callow youth any longer, that you were even becoming much like him, that you were grateful for who he was, that you truly loved him? If true, that strikes me as a regret that can become something sweet, because you are fulfilling what you wanted to show him. No guilt. Am I far off?

[dwashbur]

Joypulv,
My biggest regret is that I missed my last chance to see him. I had spent Thanksgiving with them and we had a good meal, watched some football and did what we always did, but there was a TV show I wanted to watch so I left early. (speaking of being a brainless youth... ) He asked me to come over the following Sunday and I said I would. But Sunday morning I woke up to find that some of the plumbing in my trailer had frozen, and I spent the day taking care of that. I even forgot to call him and tell him why I couldn't come over. As it turned out, that was my last opportunity. A few days later he was gone. But since I was able to deal with all the pent-up stuff when I visited his grave, now I can look at that event through more or less practical eyes and say "It couldn't be helped." And I know he would have understood. That's about it for regrets, except for my family never getting to meet him. But the Lord makes the rain fall on everybody (I'm getting a nice Seattle lesson in that right now, looking outside my window!), so I've found that instead of asking "why me?" a better question is, since I'm really no different than anybody else on this planet, "why NOT me?" becomes the question. Realizing that life is a bowl of reeking dung for an awful lot of people often gives me a little perspective on my own (mostly first-world) problems. As for my dad, I just try to honor his legacy by living the best I can, using the best of what he taught me. It also requires rejecting some things he taught me; for example, he was a child of his generation and hence a raging bigot. I managed to reject that around age 17, but thankfully never had the bad sense to tell him so! And every chance I get, I share some of his wisdom with my daughters. If, Lord willing, any of them ever marry and have kids, I know they'll pass it on to that generation, too. I've reached a point where that's good enough for me.

Alty, let me know by PM if you ever need to talk. I tend to be a pretty good listener, and I'm willing to help if I can.

[graceyj20]

A great discussion on something very difficult that touches us all in the most personal of ways.

When I loose someone close to me or someone I know looses someone close to them I do not extend the typical platitudes but rather try to share/consider the following scriptures as they show hope for the future which can bring at least some measure of comfort with time. Currently a close elderly family member of mine is in the hospital (stroke). It's unclear where things will go from here but today I take comfort in these scriptures with full confidence she's lead an unselfish life in accordance with God's word and that he will not forget her devotion.

At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name. - Malachi 3:16 (NWT)

“And I assure you that the time is coming, indeed it's here now, when the dead will hear my voice—the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live. 26 The Father has life in himself, and he has granted that same life-giving power to his Son. 27 And he has given him authority to judge everyone because he is the Son of Man. 28 Don't be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God's Son, 29 and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment. - John 5:25-29 (NLT)

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” - Rev 21:3,4 (NIV)

[classyT]

Dave,

I don't know why Christians say weird Christianese things concerning death. I really hate the saying," they are at peace" or "God needed him more." What does that EVEN mean! Really God needed him more? What a crock of crap.

Death is our enemy. God saw it as an enemy and I believe that is why Jesus cried when Lazarus died. Certainly he knew he was going to raise him back up, so it couldn't be because he loved Lazarus and since he was dead he felt devastated and that is why he cried. I think he cried because he knows the pain we that are left ( Alty, me, Dave, Jake everyone who has lost anyone) has to experience and deal with. It was NEVER his plan. Not EVER.

I lost my Dad 1 1/2 years ago. My Mom had a heart attack and was at deaths door. She needed emergency open heart surgery, she was 82 and the odds were stacked against her. I remember standing in ICU at the hospital and when the doctor told us all the risks, I just wanted to curl up in the fetal position and cease to be. It was hell. Well, my mom actually did great and made it through the surgery and was on the road to recovery. However, the stress and strain proved to be too much for my Dad. While my mom was in a rehab facility, my Dad had a stroke and died on my son, Cole's birthday. Dad would have hated that he died that day. Anyway, we all grieve differently. It took me a long time and I still am grieving. But I felt anger towards my sisters for bursting into tears. I couldn't deal with tears. My way of grieving was to just get up everyday and go, go,go like a crazy woman. I miss him everyday and every single day I feel in total SHOCK that he is gone. I am blown away. Death is the weirdest thing in the world to me. I don't get it. I am a Christian who believes to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord and I don't GET IT.

Anyway, I guess before my Dad passed I was more likely to feel uncomfortable with expressing any kind of sympathy. I suppose I always knew words were inadequate. Plus, I hadn't lost anyone that close to me before and it was hard to enter that loss. Now, I get it. The best we can do as Christians or just people in general is listen and hug. A hug is a powerful thing. So to answer your question, I don't know why people don't call it what it is. It is stupid to try to be so spiritual about death. If Jesus didn't do it, we shouldn't do it.

[dwashbur]

Dad would have hated that he died that day.

That can be a comfort to you. My mother-in-law did everything she could to die on Kathy's and my anniversary. The last thing she ever said to me was a parting shot about money.

Thankfully, she missed our anniversary by four minutes.

Your dad sounds like a terrific man. I wish I could have met him.

[classyT]

Dave,

Wow! And I think I have mother-in-law issues. You may have me beat.. "may". We will have to discuss that sometime.

Yeah he was a great guy. Your dad sounds pretty special too.

[dwashbur]

T,
Check your PMs.