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    liliflower's Avatar
    liliflower Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Sep 13, 2013, 01:58 PM
    Our dog pees herself while lying on the floor and then continues to lie in her pee
    Hello!
    We have a one and a half year old female dog (samoyed) and we cannot get her to stop peeing in the house. Practically every evening, she lies on the floor and pees herself without ever getting up and then continues to lie in her own pee until someone tells her to get up. On a bad day, she will pee herself like this even five times in one hour. This only happens in the evening, never during the day or during the night. She usually sleeps through the whole night without having to pee, and if she does need to go, she wakes someone up to take her outside. In the evening, on the other hand, she gives absolutely no signal that she needs to go outside and we don't even notice that she's wet until she stands up. We have already taken her to the vet and paid a lot of money for an x-ray and antibiotics which did not help at all. The vets also say it is possible that she cannot control her bladder because of the surgery (she was sterilised about a year ago). But this still doesn't explain why this only happens in the evening. We will be very thankfull for any information you can give us in order to help her to stop doing this.
    tickle's Avatar
    tickle Posts: 23,796, Reputation: 2674
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    #2

    Sep 13, 2013, 02:21 PM
    What do you mean, she was sterilized? Do you mean she was spayed, neutered? If so, this should have nothing to do with her bladder.
    By this vet you took her too ?

    I am thinking diabetes. Samoyeds are prone to diabetes.
    Lucky098's Avatar
    Lucky098 Posts: 2,594, Reputation: 543
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    #3

    Sep 13, 2013, 06:30 PM
    It is very rare that spaying your dog will cause urinary issues.

    She could be, basically deformed, inside her vagina and she is leaking urine that is pooling inside.

    She could just be incontinent. There are medications (proin) that a vet dispenses that you could try.
    liliflower's Avatar
    liliflower Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Sep 13, 2013, 11:51 PM
    Thank you for the answers.

    Yes, she is spayed (I'm translating from my mother tongue and I didn't check if it was correct, sorry). The vets say that sometimes it happens that they accidentally injure a nerve or something during the surgery, and that can lead to incontinence. And yes, these are the same vets that spayed her (don't worry, we are not taking her there ever again).

    However, I still don't understand why she only does this in the evening. Wouldn't she be leaking through the whole day if it was any of these things (diabetes, deformation or incontinence)?
    Sariss's Avatar
    Sariss Posts: 1,471, Reputation: 244
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    #5

    Sep 14, 2013, 04:47 AM
    Spaying can lead to incontinence. Estrogen levels are lowered by spaying, and this can lead to weakening of sphincter muscles. While she is awake she has more control, but while she sleeps she is relaxed, and those muscles relax too. Google "spay incontinence".

    There are medications for this. One is Stilbesterol, which is a synthetic estrogen. The other is Phenylpropanolamine (Propalin/Proin), which basically works to tone the sphincter muscles.
    LadySam's Avatar
    LadySam Posts: 1,589, Reputation: 322
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    #6

    Sep 14, 2013, 04:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by liliflower View Post

    However, I still don't understand why she only does this in the evening. Wouldn't she be leaking through the whole day if it was any of these things (diabetes, deformation or incontinence)?
    Not necessarily, if it is incontinence the bladder may not be that full at other times, and this is probably a time when she is very relaxed.
    With diabetes you would be seeing things like changes in appetite, increased water intake, and more frequent urination.
    Are you seeing any thing else you would consider odd?
    Try taking her out to urinate more often and especially before she lies down for her evening nap and see what happens.
    Lucky mentioned Proin already, it works to help tighten and tone the sphincter at the bladder, did your vet never mention this?
    You will also want to keep an eye on her vulva and back side for cleanliness and to prevent urine scald.
    Second opinion is always a valid option.
    liliflower's Avatar
    liliflower Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Sep 14, 2013, 05:20 AM
    She does drink a lot of water and urinates very frequently. And as for her appetite, she eats everything you give her (but it is typical for samoyeds that they will eat pretty much anything).

    In the evenings, we take her outside at least twice an hour, usually even more frequently. But she still pees once she gets in the house and lies down.

    So if she urinates when she is relaxed, how come she never does it during the night? As I already wrote, she usually sleeps through the whole night without having to pee, and if she does need to go, she gets up and wakes someone up, so that we take her out.
    Sariss's Avatar
    Sariss Posts: 1,471, Reputation: 244
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    #8

    Sep 14, 2013, 05:34 AM
    I misread the first post - I thought you said that she urinated during the night, now I see that she is urinating just while lying down.

    When a dog urinates and does not appear to be aware of it, they are generally incontinent.

    She urinates properly when she goes outside, correct? Does she strain or dribble at all?
    liliflower's Avatar
    liliflower Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    Sep 14, 2013, 05:51 AM
    Yes, she urinates perfectly normally when she goes outside. And during the day (and also at night if necessary), she always signals when she needs to go out, so apparently she does have some control over urinating. She only pees inside in the evenings when she lies down for a nap. But then when my parents go to sleep, she follows them to their bedroom and lies down by their bed and sleeps through the whole night without a drop of pee.
    Lucky098's Avatar
    Lucky098 Posts: 2,594, Reputation: 543
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    #10

    Sep 14, 2013, 06:48 PM
    Young animals may have a birth defect causing incontinence. The most common birth defect that causes incontinence in young dogs is ectopic ureter(s). The ureters carry urine from the kidneys to the bladder. If one or both ureters by-pass the bladder and connect to an abnormal location such as the urethra or vagina, the puppy may drip urine. Siberian Huskies are most often affected. Other breeds that have a higher occurrence of this birth defect include:
    Miniature Poodle
    Labrador Retriever
    Collie
    Welsh Corgi
    Wire-haired Fox Terrier
    West Highland White Terrier
    Female dogs are more commonly affected. If only one ureter is abnormal the dog will dribble urine but can also urinate normally. If both ureters are affected then the puppy will only dribble urine and cannot pass urine normally. To diagnose this condition a dye study of the bladder is usually performed. Sometimes the abnormal opening into the vagina can be seen during a careful examination under anesthesia using special equipment. Most puppies with ectopic ureter(s) also have a bladder infection that will improve with antibiotics but the infection will return until the problem is corrected. In some cases the ureter can be surgically moved back to the normal location in the bladder and incontinence may resolve. In other cases, long standing infection of the kidney may have damaged the kidney requiring the removal of one kidney. In yet other cases the abnormality of the ureter can be corrected but the pet remains incontinent, probably due to the presence of other birth defects in the urinary system

    From Urinary Incontinence in Dogs: Causes, Treatments

    The website has more info on what may be the cause of urinary incontinence.. but from your description, this is what it sounds like to me.

    As for the "nerve" damage during a spay... Completely different area. The uterus and the bladder are in two different spots. The only incontinent issue (as already mentioned) is hormonal... I will put my foot in my mouth if I am wrong, but I think I already heard the Doc explain this to a client of ours at the vet hospital who's dog had similar problems.
    Pelusawoman's Avatar
    Pelusawoman Posts: 23, Reputation: 2
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    #11

    Sep 14, 2013, 07:46 PM
    Sounds like spay incontinence to me. In the evening, she may be eating and drinking, then is very comfortable and has her best relaxation. Some dogs are more night creatures than others, and she may not be sleeping as soundly as earlier in the evening.

    I've had two big dogs in my life, both of them with spay incontinence. The current one is 12 years old, and we've been dealing with this all of her life. My favorite solution is Diethylstilbestrol, a medication that can be obtained from the vet. I only have to give it for a week, maybe only one time in a year to three years, depending upon how long it keeps her dry. Diethylstilbestrol was outlawed for people, I think due to cancer concerns, but I think the risk for my dog is worth the peace that we get by using it. And like I say, she's already 12 years with a lot more arthritis than cancer.
    Lucky098's Avatar
    Lucky098 Posts: 2,594, Reputation: 543
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    #12

    Sep 14, 2013, 08:59 PM
    To whoever gave me a reddie (Pelusawoman)... I've already shown my evidence that the ureters can bypass the bladder and attach to the vagina CAUSING dogs to leak urine at random times BUT being very house trained.

    But hey, thanks for the reddie.. (From someone who is PROMOTING a carcinogenic drug to "cure" incontinence).
    shazamataz's Avatar
    shazamataz Posts: 6,642, Reputation: 1244
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    #13

    Sep 19, 2013, 07:38 AM
    I have a female here with a very similar sounding problem, while I agree with the others on spay incontinence I can give you her story so that you know you aren't alone with this problem!

    My girl has been incontinent her entire life, it started a pup just having a few accidents overnight, we thought it was just her being a naughty puppy, but gradually we noticed a pattern and we also noticed her bed being wet in the morning.

    We had her checked out by a vet (she was not spayed at this point) and the only tests they could do involved running dyes through her system... A rather expensive process and even if the results came back positive, there was only even more expensive and not very effective surgery to possibly improve it.

    We chose medication over surgery. She is now on a drug that helps her control her bladder sphincter muscle and we have seen vast improvements. Now instead of her leaking urine when she is just relaxed or tired, she now only occasionally has an accident if she is in a very deep sleep.

    Talk to your vet about medications, whether your girl ends up going on a similar drug to mine, or whether she is out on hormones will be up to your vet, but odds are you will see at least an improvement.
    liliflower's Avatar
    liliflower Posts: 5, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    Sep 21, 2013, 11:49 PM
    So I just wanted to let you all know how our dog is doing :)

    She's been on medication for spay incontinence for about a week now and she hasn't peed inside the house since, so we're very optimistic that this is it. We're aware that she will need to be on medications for her entire life, but all that matters is that it helps.

    Again, thank you all for your answers, you've been very helpful :)
    Sariss's Avatar
    Sariss Posts: 1,471, Reputation: 244
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    #15

    Sep 22, 2013, 08:10 AM
    That's great!
    LadySam's Avatar
    LadySam Posts: 1,589, Reputation: 322
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    #16

    Sep 22, 2013, 09:45 AM
    Thanks for the update, glad to hear you have the urine problem under control. (pun intended)
    shazamataz's Avatar
    shazamataz Posts: 6,642, Reputation: 1244
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    #17

    Sep 23, 2013, 06:10 AM
    Glad to hear it! It might be a good idea to keep a journal from now on so you can keep track of her accidents (if she has anymore) and what you did that day. Sometimes things like excessive exercise can tire them out more so they sleep deeper and the muscles relax more, things like that.
    emmasmom's Avatar
    emmasmom Posts: 7, Reputation: 2
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    #18

    Sep 27, 2013, 07:54 AM
    I am thinking that she may have diabetes where she is needing to pee a couple of times an hour, and that would explain the increased drinking. I would choose another vet, and take her for a simple blood test to check her blood glucose levels.It can't hurt that's for sure, and if it isn't diabetes you can move on to the other possible culprits such as stress incontinence, or damaged bladder etc... Diabetes is a serious disease, and needs treatment very quickly so get that one of the way first. I can certainly sense your frustration with the peeing herself only in the evenings so I hope you can get to the bottom of this issue quickly. Take care, and good luck...

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