[speechlesstx]

You aren't in a union, so what's your problem? Shouldn't those decision of who to support with time and money be left to dues paying member?

I see you're from the Trumka school of Orwellianism. What part of coercion do you not get? Shouldn't workers have the right to choose how to spend their paychecks? I am a worker and I stand in solidarity with those who deserve the choice of whether to fund a union's political activity or be in the union at all. It's called freedom of choice.

[tomder55]

You aren't in a union, so what's your problem? Shouldn't those decision of who to support with time and money be left to dues paying member

So of course you favor of private ballot elections for union leadership... right ? I'll tell you that the rank and file have no say . Their dues are deducted direct from their paychecks and they vote in card check elections . When the employer, union organizer, and co-workers knows exactly how you vote then it is not free choice... and of course all you libs like choice.

[talaniman]

http://www.iaff.org/politics/PDF/hardvsoft.pdf

The state regulates how contributions can be made and maybe you didn't know that unions have super-packs just like corporation and parties do and it's a voluntary contribution.

My union has you sign a voluntary consent form with a specific amount for political contributions.

[talaniman]

so of course you favor of private ballot elections for union leadership ...right ? I'll tell you that the rank and file have no say . Their dues are deducted direct from their paychecks and they vote in card check elections . When the employer, union organizer, and co-workers knows exactly how you vote then it is not free choice ....and of course all you libs like choice.

If its supposed to be a free choice then let the worker decide. My understanding is under card check, or secret ballot, employers never know how individuals voted.

[paraclete]

Where I come from union ballots are conducted under outside supervision and secret ballot conditions, it keeps the gangsters out of the decision

[tomder55]

If its supposed to be a free choice then let the worker decide. My understanding is under card check, or secret ballot, employers never know how individuals voted.

That isn't the issue . The union leadership knows how they voted and can exert pressure on them to vote the way the leadership wants them to. I've worked in factories where unions were trying to organize... It wasn't pretty . Before I walked in the door to punch in I had to endure the union's pressure on a daily basis .

[talaniman]

Taking flyers and listening to the speil is pressure? And what kind of pressure is there after a vote? You exaggerate the problem a bit Tom, and scare yourself because like Speech you hate unions, and have no need for them. That's cool, but don't speak for anyone else but you because some of us love our union, and the protections and benefits they afford us, even with a good employer, which I also enjoyed.

Neither of you seems impressed by the fact that unions even help non union member with far wages and a quality of life you may not have except for the work of union. Even in right to work states. That's okay too. I get different strokes for different folks.

[tomder55]

Taking flyers and listening to the speil is pressure?

You have no idea... and it goes far beyond that to implied threats . I saw coworkers walk out at the end of the day to find flat tires... you get the picture ?

[talaniman]

I have a good idea of conflicts between factions and the extremes that can be huge, I mean they do find union people dead or missing, and some do get carried away, but the same thing often is seen among other walks of life, not just unions.

I could relate many scary disturbing things that have nothing to do with union issues. It is hard sometimes to separate deeply held feeling and beliefs with the bad behavior of a few, and I can remember what it was like during the steel dumping in the 80's, and the imports that flooded the markets. It was nasty since we also had massive layoffs, and wage cuts. Many disruptions of the peace and security.

I imagine the same can be said of the white collar world as blue collar, middle class people have been plain savaged, and the ones who don't have to shower after 8 hours are pretty desperate to hold onto what they have. I get all that.

[speechlesstx]

Unions lose in Wisconsin... again

Federal judge rules Wisconsin's union reforms constitutional | Reuters

[speechlesstx]

And unions are still losing in Wisconsin...

Kenosha Teachers Vote Down Union, Empowered by Wisconsin Labor Reforms
A Victory for Wisconsin Taxpayers and Worker Freedom of Choice
By Brian McNicoll
September 12, 2013

WASHINGTON, D.C. Sept. 12, 2013 – Today, teachers in Kenosha, Wis. voted to decertify their union, the Kenosha Education Association, by a margin of nearly two to one. Only 37 percent of the teachers opted to retain the union in an election made possible by the labor reforms enacted under Gov. Scott Walker (R). The result goes to show that when workers have a choice on whether to join a union instead of being forced into one by law, they often choose to vote down the union.

Competitive Enterprise Institute labor policy analyst Matt Patterson said regarding the vote in Kenosha:

“Gov. Walker’s bold and effective reforms have loosened the grip of unions on Wisconsin's public purse, to the benefit of taxpayers and to the detriment of Big Labor bosses. The news today proves what unions have long feared - that when workers are actually given a free and fair choice, they will often choose opt out of union membership altogether.

“The public at large—and an increasing number of union members—have become wise to the fact labor unions stifle innovation and burden governments and businesses with unsustainable costs and regulations."

Funny how when people have the choice they quite often exercise that choice to tell the union where to stick it.