[speechlesstx]

To his credit Obama has called for tougher standards in public education, although I'm admittedly unfamiliar with his Common Core standards so I can't comment on that. New York was among the first to jump on the Common Core bandwagon and the first results are in.

Test Scores Sink as New York Adopts Tougher Benchmarks

The number of New York students passing state reading and math exams dropped drastically this year, education officials reported on Wednesday, unsettling parents, principals and teachers and posing new challenges to a national effort to toughen academic standards.

In New York City, 26 percent of students in third through eighth grade passed the tests in English, and 30 percent passed in math, according to the New York State Education Department.

I actually had to do a double take on that, um less than a third of 3-8 grade NYC students could pass math and English? Are you kidding me? And then I read this...

The exams were some of the first in the nation to be aligned with a more rigorous set of standards known as the Common Core, which emphasize deep analysis and creative problem-solving over short answers and memorization. Last year, under an easier test, 47 percent of city students passed in English, and 60 percent in math.

Well, that's comforting - about half can pass with easier standards. Really?

Apparently no one was too eager to share the results.

City and state officials spent months trying to steel the public for the grim figures.

But when the results were released, many educators responded with shock that their students measured up so poorly against the new yardsticks of achievement.

Chrystina Russell, principal of Global Technology Preparatory in East Harlem, said she did not know what she would tell parents, who will receive scores for their children in late August. At her middle school, which serves a large population of students from poor families, 7 percent of students were rated proficient in English, and 10 percent in math. Last year, those numbers were 33 percent and 46 percent, respectively.

I'm stunned. I knew public education was a joke but that's pathetic, and yes I lay most of the blame on the stranglehold liberals have on public education - you have reaped what you've sown. I am appalled especially that this is how the poor are being served in the education system.

But give me your canned talking points anyway about how it's all Republican's fault, if we'd only spend a gazillion dollars more and quit siphoning off dollars to send poor kids to schools that don't suck, blah, blah, blah.

No wonder Matt Damon is sending his kids to private school.

[Tuttyd]

I wouldn't mind giving some talking points, but I would rather leave out the, "blah,blah,blah". Strange coming from a guy who likes to have an honest discussion about issues.

[speechlesstx]

I think that's the point of being snarky about predictable answers, give us something besides DNC talking points, like honesty.

[Wondergirl]

Forget most of the standardized testing and bring back

1. Palmer Method of Penmanship
2. memorizing times tables
3. Roman numerals to 1,000
4. recess twice a day
5. half-hour lunch with teacher (and aides?) in the room -- one adult reading a chapter a day from an age-appropriate classic while the students eat
6. geography
7. art and music appreciation with practical application
8. memorization of poetry, etc.

[Tuttyd]

I think that's the point of being snarky about predictable answers, give us something besides DNC talking points, like honesty.

My answers generally are not predictable.

You usually complain when someone gets snarky. From you original posting I get the feeling you are going to give me your usual talking points on education. I am happy to have a honest conservation so long as we leave out the blah blah stuff.

[paraclete]

Well speech you want an honest answer, I think the point of education has been lost in much of the western world. There is too much reliance on technology and not enough on conveying basic skills

[teacherjenn4]

We've gone back to basic skills and having students work on solving problems from the beginning to an end in common core. It's much needed in various parts of the country. It keeps teachers accountable.

[speechlesstx]

Forget most of the standardized testing and bring back

1. Palmer Method of Penmanship
2. memorizing times tables
3. Roman numerals to 1,000
4. recess twice a day
5. half-hour lunch with teacher (and aides?) in the room -- one adult reading a chapter a day from an age-appropriate classic while the students eat
6. geography
7. art and music appreciation with practical application
8. memorization of poetry, etc.

That's a start. :)

[speechlesstx]

My answers generally are not predictable.

You usually complain when someone gets snarky. From you original posting I get the feeling you are going to give me your usual talking points on education. I am happy to have a honest conservation so long as we leave out the blah blah stuff.

Trust me Tut, I know you're answers are unpredictable and I like that about you. The blah blah blah is directed at someone else and I love snark, I employ it often. It's the self- righteous condescending snobbery coupled with repetitive bullsh*t I don't care for.

[speechlesstx]

We've gone back to basic skills and having students work on solving problems from the beginning to an end in common core. It's much needed in various parts of the country. It keeps teachers accountable.

I'm all for that, I've documented too many times how too many teachers and their unions are more concerned for themselves than the children... while claiming "it's for the children." Let's have some accountability again and give parents a choice.

[teacherjenn4]

I'm all for that, I've documented too many times how too many teachers and their unions are more concerned for themselves than the children...while claiming "it's for the children." Let's have some accountability again and give parents a choice.

Parents do have a choice in many areas. My school is a school of choice. It has the highest test scores and students are chosen by lottery. It's an amazing place to work. :)

[speechlesstx]

Parents do have a choice in many areas. My school is a school of choice. It has the highest test scores and students are chosen by lottery. It's an amazing place to work. :)

Awesome, now if we can end the attack against choice in other places.

[talaniman]

Are there enough good schools where EVERY child has a choice? What happens to the ones that don't win the lottery?

[Fr_Chuck]

Looking at math and reading scores, America is still behind many other nations on education. This years lists does not even have the US in the top 10 of nations at 8th grade or high school level.

When we lived in Atlanta, our friend who is on the school board there even told us, if we had any other choice, not to send our child to the public school, that they were on the school board of.

[teacherjenn4]

Are there enough good schools where EVERY child has a choice? What happens to the ones that don't win the lottery?

Our district has the highest scores out of every district within hundreds of miles. All of our schools are excellent--my school is a model being watched by all of California. We get lots of visitors.

[paraclete]

I wouldn't worry you are just above the PISA averages on OECD measures. It isn't a contest some nations place a higher value on education

[tomder55]

Are there enough good schools where EVERY child has a choice? What happens to the ones that don't win the lottery?

The answer to your question is 'of course not ' . Public education has been in a long period of rut and deterioration .But unlike your canned 'throw money at the problem' solutions ,school choice is the way out. It forces competition among the schools which in turn compels schools to perform better . You should be applauding that there are demonstrated proven results when choice is offered. But of course ,like a true 'progressive' ,the only choice you like is the choice to kill your baby.

[Tuttyd]

the answer to your question is 'of course not ' . Public education has been in a long period of rut and deterioration .But unlike your canned 'throw money at the problem' solutions ,school choice is the way out. It forces competition among the schools which in turn compels schools to perform better . You should be applauding that there are demonstrated proven results when choice is offered. But of course ,like a true 'progressive' ,the only choice you like is the choice to kill your baby.

Tom, this is the same tired old rhetoric. It is the same old. "one solution fits all" approach. Your canned "choice" is no way out of the problems that have been specifically canvassed in this thread.

[talaniman]

Competition is great for a sport or business but kids learning to compete in a tough world need skills and understanding that goes beyond just marketing them for private profit. While there are many private educational institutes that perform well there are many that do not.

My question was specifically what happens to the kids that lose the lottery and even beyond that what's left for those that have PUBLIC funds siphoned from PUBLIC schools to private schools that well off parents get subsidized for there child's education. Many urban cities are caught up in this shift of funds from public poor to private well to do so I think asking what happens when all the slots are filled and a voucher means nothing.

My point is while more may have choices, all will not. A majority will not. And then we have stories like this,

Bennett resigns over Ind. school grade change scandal

On the way out, Bennett said that he did the right thing last year when he changed the grade given to the Christel House Academy from a "C" to an "A." Nevertheless, he's out of a job and Indiana Gov. Mike Pence on Thursday called for a thorough review of the state's grading system.

I would hate to think our kids can become leverage for politically connected types to et federal money in there pockets. Until all the data is in though so we can see if indeed private schools are the answer I remain skeptical if this is the total answer.

Charter Schools vs. Traditional Public Schools: Which One is Under-Performing? | PublicSchoolReview.com

As CREDO, a national organization devoted to charter school research reveals, the Stanford analysts compared reading and math state-based standardized test scores between charter school vs. public school students in 15 states, as well as scores in the District of Columbia. In fact, in further evaluating the data, experts found that 37 percent of charter schools posted improvements in math scores; however, these improvement rates were significantly below the improvement rates of students in the public school classrooms. Furthermore, 46 percent of charter schools experienced math improvements that were "statistically indistinguishable" from the average improvement rates shown by public school students.

[speechlesstx]

Are there enough good schools where EVERY child has a choice? What happens to the ones that don't win the lottery?

And where they do exist why deny them?