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    endlessecho's Avatar
    endlessecho Posts: 121, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Mar 26, 2007, 01:54 PM
    Signing over rights between unmarried couple (17 and 18 yo)
    My boyfriend is 18 years old and when he was 17 he got a 16 year old girl pregnant. Their baby is now 4 months old. While this girl was pregnant she physically attacted me and my boyfriend. And she broke into he's mother's house while he lived there and stole a car seat that he bought for he's car for the baby. She went into labor and a friend of mine who is also friends with her found out and told me so that I could tell my boyfriend. She refused to let him be with her at the brith, and gave the baby her last name rather than he's. She has only allowed him to see the baby ONCE since she was bron and afterthat refused to return he's phone calls. And recently she keyed my car out of anger. My boyfriend wants to sign over he's rights so that he and I can move on with our lives and get married in January of next year. I have told him countless times that no matter what happens I am by he's side, and that what ever choices he makes about this, or anything else, I will eternally love and support him and he has chosen to give up all rights to he's child.

    I know that when he signs over he's rights they can still make him pay child support for the child, but I want to know, with these facts at hand, is there any way possible that he can sign over he's rights with out having to pay child support. He wants to have no contact or connection with the mother or child what so ever. He just wants to start fresh and leave he's past behind him.

    Also, I do know know this for a fact, but my boyfriend told me, and he's ex did not deny it at all, He's ex paid for a motel room where she had sex with another man while she was 5 months pregnant. And she tried to kill her self while she was pregnant. Not to mention that a few years ago, before she moved here (and this she told to me) she spent a stay in 3 different mental hospitals for self mutalation and trying to kill herself.

    Please, can some one help us? He's lawyer has not helped at all because the attorny is in he's mothers name, even though he paid for him, and he and he's mother no longer speak, in fact, he has had her banned from being on our property due to her constant harassment. (She wants him to be with he's ex, rather than me because of the baby)

    PLEASE HELP!
    Squiffy's Avatar
    Squiffy Posts: 499, Reputation: 84
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    #2

    Mar 26, 2007, 02:05 PM
    It doesn't matter how the mother behaves, it's the welfare of the child that the courts look at. He cannot sign away his financial responsibility to that baby, unless she had a new parter that wants to adopt the child. Having a child id a lifelong commitment.

    If he wants to see the child he needs to apply through the courts if the mother won't allow it.

    If you have proof she keyed your car, report it to the police, they can prosecute her. Same as the theft of the car seat.
    endlessecho's Avatar
    endlessecho Posts: 121, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Mar 26, 2007, 02:11 PM
    Both have been reported. They go to court on 4/19 over the car seat, and we go on 5/17 over the car keying, I'm wanting to know if her poor behavier can be used to show that it is in the best interest of the child to to in no way (including finacially) that he not be involved because ANY contact he tries to have with her or the baby does nothing but provoce her to act in harmful ways, which is not something we want for the child.

    The only reason that he is not trying to get full cutody and take the baby away from the child is because he knows he will not win, they almost never take the rights away from mothers unless it is a case of abandonment, and then, if she comes back, she gets rights back, I know this because that is what happened in the case of my baby step brothers.
    Squiffy's Avatar
    Squiffy Posts: 499, Reputation: 84
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    #4

    Mar 26, 2007, 02:15 PM
    No that won't work. They will look at what is best for baby, how she behaves is irrelevant. They will look at whether his influence in baby's life, financially or otherwise, will be negative on the child. The mothers lifestyle isn't on trial. If he isn't a direct threat to that child, or its mother, they will not stop him paying for it. Best he can hope for is that she finds a new partner who wants to adopt the child.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #5

    Mar 26, 2007, 02:22 PM
    Have you also considered the impact on the child in the future? Imagine finding out that your father signed over his rights to you. Imagine feeling that you were not wanted, as this child will.

    We all think selfishly in these circumstances, I do see why, but we never think of the future mental wellbeing of the child in question.

    If he wants to see the child, then he should get someone who will pick the child up, drop it off to him, and then return the child to the mother so that he and her do not have any contact. A mediator, if you will.

    We need to take into consideration how this can devistate the children mentally and emotionally.

    I will say that if she is deemed by the courts to be mentally unstable, and from what I have read she may be considered that, there is a risk of her losing the child whether now or in the future. Why not stay there for the child if in case the inevitable does happen so that the child will not go into foster care, which can be much worse.

    If you all are going to court you must document everything she does, document, document, DOCUMENT!!
    endlessecho's Avatar
    endlessecho Posts: 121, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Mar 27, 2007, 11:26 AM
    Frankly, I wasn't asking for moral advise, I was asking for LEGAL advise.

    Does anyone know of any court cases in which a parent voluntarally signed over their rights and was not made to pay child support and if so, what were the circumstances of that?
    vlee's Avatar
    vlee Posts: 454, Reputation: 109
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    #7

    Mar 27, 2007, 12:22 PM
    There is a section dedicated to legal help via the homepage... lawyers don't normally post here. This is typically a page answered by everyday people trying to help. Also, your question was answered, the answer is NO. This kid could have a complete psychopath for a mom, but dad is still financially responsible for that child.

    That said, you have no right to be defensive in response to J_9. In fact, it doesn't make you sound at all as though you would be supportive if your ex wanted this child in his life. You need to examine your own true motives. If this guy gives up his kid because you put the pressure on, he may resent you for it later.
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #8

    Mar 27, 2007, 12:26 PM
    Her answer to my post has me wondering if she is the one instigating the problems as though she does not want the child in her life. I know the way I am, if I were in her shoes, I would be helping him fight for custody rather than fighting to terminate rights.
    vlee's Avatar
    vlee Posts: 454, Reputation: 109
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    #9

    Mar 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
    That is the impression her response gave me as well. The boyfriend and his ex are very young, so I assume the OP is as well, hence the defensive response which I interpreted as due to immaturity.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #10

    Mar 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by endlessecho
    Frankly, I wasn't asking for moral advise, I was asking for LEGAL advise.

    Does anyone know of any court cases in which a parent voluntarally signed over thier rights and was not made to pay child support and if so, what were the sercumstances of that?
    First, you posted this under the Children forum, not Family Law. Second, whatever advise you were looking for, we have the right to comment on what was posted.

    As has been said here umpteen times, you can't sign away your responsibilities. No way, no how.

    And I'm also going to give you moral advice. SHAME ON YOU! From everythng you've told us, this child's mother is unbalanced and a danger to the child. How can you be so callous as to want to abandon an innocent child to such a person. What you SHOULD be doing is working out a way that your boyfriend can gain physical custody of the child. You should be looking for ways to nurture that child, not abandon it.
    endlessecho's Avatar
    endlessecho Posts: 121, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Mar 27, 2007, 02:27 PM
    I'm sorry that I posted this in the wrong place, I've never used the sight until yesterday and didn't really know what I was doing. Had I know I would be judged and rediculed, I wouldn't have said anything at all.

    I have been reading up on the laws and in some cases, the judge can order that no child support is to be paid. It's rare but can be done.

    But you have no right to say "Shame on you" to me. My only duty is to love and support my boyfriend and I have done that to the fulliest extent. I'm not the bad guy here. I'm not the unhinged crazy who got herself pregnant and now wants to be a about EVERYTHING. My boyfriend knows that if he ever asked me to love and raise his baby with this girl that I would do it with a smile, in a heart beat. But that's not my choice, it's his. And he wants to wash he's hands of it.

    I came here looking for advise, not a lecture. And I hope that maybe I can give advise or help someone here, but I sure as won't judge them.
    Synnen's Avatar
    Synnen Posts: 7,927, Reputation: 2443
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    #12

    Mar 27, 2007, 03:06 PM
    You got a lecture because of your attitude.

    Frankly, if you had been a little bit more open, and a little less hostile, you probably wouldn't have gotten much of a lecture. You'd still get one, because we see people ask DAILY how to get out of paying their child support.

    You, missy, are a b*tch. I hope you are happy with a guy that would happily leave his child in the hands of, in your words, a psycho.

    I'm just glad that karma works.
    endlessecho's Avatar
    endlessecho Posts: 121, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Mar 27, 2007, 06:05 PM
    I'm not sure who you think you are to lecture me, but despite what you think, you don't have that right.

    As a daughter who WISHES her father would have spared her all the pain and heart ache he has causedby doing the "right thing" and not signing over he's rights, I know what it's like to be on both sides of the table.

    I am very happy with my guy, I sincerely hope that he's ex finds a nice guy and settles down also, but the two of them can't handle even hearing the other one's name with out something bad happening.

    She is psycho and I wish that in real justice, the child would be taken away from her and left in my guys care, or the care of someone sane to take care of her, but that is just not going to happen.

    I might be a B*tch, but at least I'm honest. I stand up for what I believe in and don't back town, no matter what! And I'm not too proude to admit when I'm wrong, I'm not so self rightous as some people.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #14

    Mar 27, 2007, 06:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by endlessecho
    I have been reading up on the laws and in some cases, the judge can order that no child support is to be paid. It's rare but can be done.

    But you have no right to say "Shame on you" to me. My only duty is to love and support my bf and I have done that to the fulliest extent. I'm not the bad guy here. I'm not the unhinged crazy who got herself pregnant and now wants to be a about EVERYTHING. My boyfriend knows that if he ever asked me to love and raise his baby with this girl that I would do it with a smile, in a heart beat. But that's not my choice, it's his. And he wants to wash he's hands of it.
    I came here looking for advise, not a lecture. And I hope that maybe I can give advise or help someone here, but I sure as won't judge them.
    Boy girl, you just keep digging yourself in deeper!

    First, no one said a judge can't order that no child support will be paid. Of course it can happen. But that wasn't the question you asked. The question was can a father get out of paying child support by relinquishing their parental rights and the answer to that is NO!

    Quote Originally Posted by endlessecho
    I'm not sure who you think you are to lecture me, but despite what you think, you don't have that right.

    She is psycho and I wish that in real justice, the child would be taken away from her and left in my guys care, or the care of someone sane to take care of her, but that is just not going to happen.

    I might be a B*tch, but at least I'm honest. I stand up for what I believe in and don't back town, no matter what! And I'm not too proude to admit when I'm wrong, I'm not so self rightous as some people.
    I'm afraid you don't understand how things work here. I have EVERY right to say what I've said. When you post a question and ask for advice you WILL get advice. You may not like the advice, but that's not our problem. You tell us the situation and we make our judgement about that situation and offer what we think is the best advice based on it. The advantage here is that no one knows who you are. So you ask your advice in anonymity, and you can take that advice make your own judgement about how well it fits and what you want with it.

    Bottom line here is that most of us care about innocent kids. Your original notes showed no feelings or compassion for the child. That's what we reacted to and, I for one, feel that reaction was justified.
    vlee's Avatar
    vlee Posts: 454, Reputation: 109
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    #15

    Mar 27, 2007, 11:58 PM
    Scottgem, if I were "permitted" to rate you again I'd say, "I freakin' love you, man!" SOOOOOOOOOO right on. Chickie going by endlessecho... this is an ADVICE forum, like it or not, so that is what you'll get, like it or not. I'm not sure where you get the self righteous bull84i# you referred to, but most people responding have some experience (along with the maturity) to be able to tell you that you are WAY out of line... first of all, everyone has tried to answer your question... (AGAIN, THE ANSWER IS NO. Second of all, you are far too immature to grasp the concept of dumping an innocent child with total disregard. The more defensive you become, the more you prove our point. Seriously, everyone here has tried to be helpful. You don't have to like the answers you get, just stop responding to them if you haven't got a better argument.
    endlessecho's Avatar
    endlessecho Posts: 121, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Mar 28, 2007, 05:05 AM
    You haven't tried to be helpful. You've tried to be a douche, and you have done a GREAT job! Gold star for you!

    *rolls eyes*

    I want what's best for everyone in our situation, but frankly, I'm not one of the two who laid down and made that baby, it's not my job to take care of it, I have NO say in the matter. It's between him and her and my only duty is to love and support my boyfriend. I sincerely hope that the two of them can stop fighting long enough to figure some things out and hopefully this won't have to go to court, but I highly doubt it since the court date is 4 weeks away.

    And apparently you idiots don't know what you are talking about because the more research I do, the more I find that you can in fact sign over your rights and not have to pay child support. You're not telling people the truth, you're telling them what you think should be the truth in hopes that more people will think like you, and do as you would do because you think that would make the world better or something.

    Sorry, But I believe and honesty first and for most.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #17

    Mar 28, 2007, 06:09 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by endlessecho
    they almost never take the rights away from mothers unless it is a case of abandonment, and then, if she comes back, she gets rights back, I know this becuase that is what happened in the case of my baby step brothers.
    Hello endless:

    I would not judge ALL cases based on the ONE case you know about. I just wouldn't.

    excon
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #18

    Mar 28, 2007, 06:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by endlessecho
    You havn't tried to be helpful. You've tried to be a douche, and you have done a GREAT job! Gold star for you!

    *rolls eyes*

    I want what's best for everyone in our situation, but frankly, I'm not one of the two who laid down and made that baby, it's not my job to take care of it, I have NO say in the matter. It's between him and her and my only duty is to love and support my bf. I sincerly hope that the two of them can stop fighting long enough to figure some things out and hopefully this won't have to go to court, but I highly doubt it since the court date is 4 weeks away.

    And apparently you idiots don't know what you are talking about becuase the more research I do, the more I find that you can infact sign over your rights and not have to pay child support. You're not telling people the truth, you're telling them what you think should be the truth in hopes that more people will think like you, and do as you would do becuase you think that would make the world better or something.

    Sorry, But I believe and honesty first and for most.
    First, You may not like the help we've given, but to deny that we have tried to help is just another examplke of your immaturity.

    Second, if you have found any references that prove us wrong, please post them. If I am wrong about anything I will be the first to admit it. As I said in another answer, no one said its not possible to get out of paying child support. There are circumstances where that can happen. One common circumstance is the mother not wanting support. The mother may not want the father to have anything to do with the child so eschews support.

    But, one cannot get out of paying support JUST by relinquishing parental rights. Parental Rights and Parental Responsibility are held to be two separate things. One can relinquish the rights, which means having no say in the child's upbringing, but one can't relinquish the responsibility to financially support the child. If it were that easy, every deadbeat dad would do it.

    I suspect the research you have done has found cases where there were a number of factors that went into not imposing child support. I believe our answer was and is correct. And will stand by it unless you can prove we were wrong.

    Third, No its not your job to take care of the child, but it is your job as a human being to be concerned about it. Something you have shown little of.

    Finally, I too believe in being honest. That's why I've told it like I see it. You may not like what you've heard, but we have been honest and truthful with you.
    vlee's Avatar
    vlee Posts: 454, Reputation: 109
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    #19

    Mar 28, 2007, 10:47 AM
    I personally feel I have answered your question and directed you where to look for legal help, as I have never pretended to be a lawyer. If you don't want to be criticized you shouldn't post such hostile messages. You can make a point without being offensive, and I think the posts you got in return became hostile because of your own choice of words. I don't support what your boyfriend is doing, I hope it's not for you, but I still gave you the best advice I could.
    Megg's Avatar
    Megg Posts: 421, Reputation: 53
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    #20

    Mar 28, 2007, 10:51 AM
    What makes you people assume she doesn't care? I think she clearly care's. She is trying to support her boyfriend by loving him and trying to be there. She can't put her too sense in because she has no say in the matter. I think she does care, she just told you she did. She might not be used to talking to people over the net like this site. God get the heck over it. Thumbs up Endless, you're my type of chick. REAL, to the point and don't take crap.

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