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searain722 · Jul 12, 2013, 12:11 AM

I went to jail and served my time, so do I go back to jail if I can no longer afford to pay Restitution. This was a white collar criminal crime.

joypulv · Jul 12, 2013, 12:29 AM

You would have been told what the terms were if you failed to pay restitution. Very likely, yes, back to prison. Do you have a PO?

Fr_Chuck · Jul 12, 2013, 12:29 AM

It is possible, yes, that they will revoke your probation,( or parole) you will need to go and sit down with PO and explain, show him income, and bills, explain why you can not, and how much you can pay

searain722 · Jul 12, 2013, 01:17 AM

No I served the time they gave me.

searain722 · Jul 12, 2013, 01:17 AM

I was not given a PO.

excon · Jul 12, 2013, 04:01 AM

Hello s:

If you're on probation they MIGHT be able to revoke it depending on several factors.. If you're NOT on probation there's NOTHING they can do.

excon

joypulv · Jul 12, 2013, 06:02 AM

They can garnish income, even way in the future. I have a friend who gets a small US Treasury check every month, years after some guy scammed her and he went to jail.

excon · Jul 12, 2013, 09:23 AM

Hello joy:

They can garnish income, even way in the future.

They'd have to win a civil suit first, and that might not be easy.

Excon

AK lawyer · Jul 12, 2013, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello joy:

They'd have to win a civil suit first, and that might not be easy.

excon

In some places (here in Florida included), a restitution order is functionally equivalent to a civil judgment so that doing that would be unnecessary.

searain722 · Jul 13, 2013, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

In some places (here in Florida included), a restitution order is functionally equivalent to a civil judgment so that doing that would be unnecessary.

Well since I will be on SSI for the rest of my life, I know they can not garnish it. I do appreciate everyone's knowledge. I am in the state of Washington so I believe they would have to do a civil, which would be fine because at least then my evidence would put into play and not just theirs. That is something they would not want leaked out to the public.
I have learned the hard way the law is not always justified or fair or legal. It is who has the most money and the best lawyers.

I still invite more information anyone might have. Thank you exon and didn't drink the koolaid.

joypulv · Jul 13, 2013, 05:27 AM

I for one am ready to be sympathetic but we don't know the details.

AK lawyer · Jul 13, 2013, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by searain722

Well since I will be on SSI for the rest of my life, I know they can not garnish it. ...

They can't garnish the SSI, but you do understand that they could go after other income or property?

Originally Posted by searain722

... I am in the state of Washington so I believe they would have to do a civil, which would be fine because at least then my evidence would put into play and not just theirs. ...

Collateral estoppel would come into play, making it difficult to have the court look at your evidence. If you were convicted, the court is not going to want to re-visit the evidence which you could have presented before.

excon · Jul 13, 2013, 06:17 AM

Hello again, lawyer:

Collateral estoppel would come into play, making it difficult to have the court look at your evidence. If you were convicted, the court is not going to want to re-visit the evidence which you could have presented before.

Nahhhh... The criminal court determines whether he did it. It does NOT determine HOW MUCH it's worth.. In one criminal trial that I'm familiar with, the defendant OBJECTED to the amount the victim was claiming.. The judge said that since it was a CRIMINAL trial, the victim had to PROVE restitution/damages BEYOND a reasonable doubt - the criminal standard... The victim, of course, couldn't PROVE them with that standard, so he sued the defendant civilly.

MOST judges in a criminal trial grant the victim what he wants with NO question regarding the amount, and a civil trial will NOT break out during a criminal trial.. That is what I believe happened here, so the OP's evidence was probably NEVER heard..

Excon

searain722 · Jul 13, 2013, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by joypulv

I for one am ready to be sympathetic but we don't know the details.

Law Enforcement who see's bosses and bosses misuse of public money. Went to governor (wrote) in detail what was going on. Exactly who was doing what, I didn't find out until after trial that the governors office "doesn't have the money to investigate every letter that comes in". So what do they do with them, they send them right back to the agency to whom it was about. The exact agency I worked for, so even though someone had an independent account investigators come into the agency and they were coming to me to get files, what happens?
A class, yes a class, I had requested to go to was denied by boss. However I had been severely injured by boss, mentally and physically, so I went from being Law Enforcement into headquarters. Where it turns out they were also using money and taking spouses on extravagant trips as well as the commission. The attack they (being the agency) stated it was a he said she said. However when there was sudden change in my boss at Headquarters turns out to be the best friend of the person who attacked me. So after being forced from one position into another there was suppose to be reasonable accommodation. So yes my boss said no but to go to the accommodation officer and see what he says. He stated yes. I booked the class 3 months later they stated they did not give me permission. The paperwork that was turned into HR vanished, young lady there says she remembered seeing it but not what was said. So I go to jail for a class, grant it the class was expensive $2000. Next thing I know I am in cuffs for stealing money. Ironic is the only term I have for it anymore and heartbreaking to know the justice system was not as strong as I though.

joypulv · Jul 13, 2013, 10:46 AM

How much time did you spend in jail over $2000?
Your story is a little hard to grasp but I'm certainly willing to believe that they were out to discredit you after you blew the whistle on them.

AK lawyer · Jul 13, 2013, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by excon

... The criminal court determines whether he did it. It does NOT determine HOW MUCH it's worth.. In one criminal trial that I'm familiar with, the defendant OBJECTED to the amount the victim was claiming.. The judge said that since it was a CRIMINAL trial, the victim had to PROVE restitution/damages BEYOND a reasonable doubt - the criminal standard... The victim, of course, couldn't PROVE them with that standard, so he sued the defendant civilly.

MOST judges in a criminal trial grant the victim what he wants with NO question regarding the amount, and a civil trial will NOT break out during a criminal trial.. That is what I believe happened here, so the OP's evidence was probably NEVER heard..

excon

The amount of resitution ordered is normally determined post-trial, at a restitution hearing. The burden there is preponderence-of-evidence, not reasonable doubt.

Be that as it may, if the amount were determined beyond a reasonable doubt, that would make OP's chances of re-examination even slimmer.

If the OP's evidence was never heard at the restitution hearing, that would be because OP's attorney didn't press for it, or appeal afterwards. So the only real argument OP would have now would be some sort of ineffective assistance of counsel claim.

searain722 · Jul 14, 2013, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by joypulv

How much time did you spend in jail over $2000?
Your story is a little hard to grasp but I'm certainly willing to believe that they were out to discredit you after you blew the whistle on them.

I spent 30 days in jail. Yes I agree with the lawyer part, word of advice never hire a former judge turn attorney as your defense. Sounds good but isn't.

I did plan on suing civilly however part of the final judgment was I could not contact, even through a third party, them for 10 years.
So I am unclear if that means I can not and they have set amount of years to protect the individuals by means of statue of limitation.
So I am unsure if I can sue them, if I can I am going after 10 people. I don't have a problem with that at all. What does the 10 year thing means of not contacting them.
Sorry I know this is confusing, I am baffled not to mentioned more than a bit shell shock. I do appreciate everyone's advice, it really helps me understand what is/has gone on.

searain722 · Jul 14, 2013, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by searain722

I spent 30 days in jail. Yes I agree with the lawyer part, word of advice never hire a former judge turn attorney as your defense. Sounds good but isn't.

I did plan on suing civilly however part of the final judgment was I could not contact, even through a third party, them for 10 years.
So I am unclear if that means I can not and they have set amount of years to protect the individuals by means of statue of limitation.
So I am unsure if I can sue them, if I can I am going after 10 people. I don't have a problem with that at all. What does the 10 year thing means of not contacting them.
Sorry I know this is confusing, I am baffled not to mentioned more than a bit shell shock. I do appreciate everyone's advice, it really helps me understand what is/has gone on.

Yes I know it sounds like a Lifetime movie, nothing like that could ever happen in real life. I wish I could wake up from what happened. I don't like the title I have now "felon". If I was a dirty cop so be it, I would take my lumps and move on with life. Maybe I am concentrating to hard on the lack of actually no justice. It pains me and yes I am highly embarrassed by the situation but that was part of the idea I think. Again I thank you all for your advice, it helps me cope with what happened, if that is there is nothing can be done I guess I will have to live with it. I am not willing to do that though if I have a chance.

AK lawyer · Jul 14, 2013, 04:21 AM

Let me summarize what happened; correct me where wrong:

You enrolled in work-related training. But your employer allegedly had not authorized payment for the training.
Therefore you were convicted of a felony and spent some 30 days in jail. The court which sentenced you ordered restitution and also ordered that you have no contact with the "victims" for ten years.
Because of this no-contact order you assumed you could not sue the victims for ten years.

In addition to the other reasons I discussed above that I don't feel you can re-litigate the amount of the restitution, it's very likely that a statute of limitations would preclude your re-litigation of the restitution order. Just to be clear, a no-contact order would not have stopped you from suing them.

searain722 · Jul 14, 2013, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

Let me summarize what happened; correct me where wrong:

You enrolled in work-related training. But your employer allegedly had not authorized payment for the training.
Therefore you were convicted of a felony and spent some 30 days in jail. The court which sentenced you ordered restitution and also ordered that you have no contact with the "victims" for ten years.
Because of this no-contact order you assumed you could not sue the victims for ten years.

In addition to the other reasons I discussed above that I don't feel you can re-litigate the amount of the restitution, it's very likely that a statute of limitations would preclude your re-litigation of the restitution order. Just to be clear, a no-contact order would not have stopped you from suing them.

Really? Ok Thank you. I will look at the statue of limitation on this. Thank you.