[112223333]

I got charged with two guns, the police stopped me for not having my headlights on. They asked to search the car I said no. They said they wasn't but did anyway! I'm a first time offender and I live in Virginia

[JudyKayTee]

What is your question? Whether it was a lawful search? Something else?

[112223333]

What is your question? Whether it was a lawful search? Something else?

I want to know what can I possibly get in jail? Or fined? Probation?

[excon]

Hello 1:

The search was illegal. Hire a lawyer and you'll be exonerated.

excon

[AK lawyer]

Are you telling me it's illegal to have firearms in your car in Virginia?

Some other Virginians, Patrick Henry, George Washington, James Madison, R. E. Lee, and James Drury would be upset to know that.

Crimes involving firearms in Virginia are described here. Which one were you charged with?

[JudyKayTee]

What is the exact charge?

[odinn7]

He is either prohibited or does not have the proper carry permit.

Transporting firearms in a vehicle, without a carry permit, is only allowed if you are:
Going to or from a designated hunting area
Going to or from a target shooting area
Going to or from a place of purchase or repair

In these cases, the firearm and ammunition must be kept in separate "compartments" and be "properly secured".

Without a carry permit, if he had the guns just laying out in the open or not secured, he is in violation.

[excon]

Hello odinn:

That said, the cop wouldn't/couldn't find evidence INSIDE the car to bolster his citation of not having headlights on.. Illegal or not, the search to find them was, and they can't be introduced into evidence.

excon

[JudyKayTee]

Without more details I'm not sure. I understand human rights, the right to carry, all of that - but I also understand Police Officers who think they are in danger, get a tip, something else. Sometimes that request is simply a courtesy.

I'd like to know the exact charge -

[joypulv]

If the cop saw a gun or guncase in plain sight, he isn't performing a 'search' of a car after stopping the car for a legitimate car violation. That's my understanding of the law. We don't know if that happened or if a real search was done. OP seems more concerned here with what his punishment is going to be.

[joypulv]

excon, I don't believe that 'the cop wouldn't/couldn't find evidence INSIDE the car to bolster his citation of not having headlights on' is accurate.

He does say that the cops asked if they could search, were told no, and did anyway. How much of a search it was we don't know. Shining a flashlight on the floor? Lifting a blanket? Is the first in plain sight and the second an illegal search?

[excon]

Hello joy:

All those unknowns remain unknown.. I can only go by what is known. He said he didn't give them permission to search and the cop did anyway. Unless the cop was looking for evidence of the crime of not having headlights on, the search was illegal...

Granted, there's a lot of stuff we don't know.

excon

[AK lawyer]

He is either prohibited or does not have the proper carry permit.

Transporting firearms in a vehicle, without a carry permit, is only allowed if you are:
Going to or from a designated hunting area
Going to or from a target shooting area
Going to or from a place of purchase or repair

In these cases, the firearm and ammunition must be kept in separate "compartments" and be "properly secured".

Without a carry permit, if he had the guns just laying out in the open or not secured, he is in violation.

Can you cite the statute that says this?

Because I looked, and didn't find one that does.

Here is the list of Virginia firearm (or other weapon) crimes that I did find:

"18.2-279 Discharging firearms or missiles within or at building or dwelling house; penalty
18.2-280 Willfully discharging firearms in public places
18.2-281 Setting spring gun or other deadly weapon
18.2-282 Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearan...
18.2-282.1 Brandishing a machete or other bladed weapon with intent to intimidate; penalty.
18.2-283 Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship
18.2-283.1 Carrying weapon into courthouse
18.2-284 Selling or giving toy firearms
18.2-285 Hunting with firearms while under influence of intoxicant or narcotic drug; penalty
18.2-286 Shooting in or across road or in street
18.2-286.1 Shooting from vehicles so as to endanger persons; penalty
18.2-287 Description unavailable
18.2-287.01 Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal
18.2-287.1 Description unavailable
18.2-287.2 Wearing of body armor while committing a crime; penalty
18.2-287.3 Description unavailable
18.2-287.4 Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty
18.2-288 Definitions
18.2-289 Use of machine gun for crime of violence
18.2-290 Use of machine gun for aggressive purpose
18.2-291 What constitutes aggressive purpose
18.2-292 Presence prima facie evidence of use
18.2-293 What article does not apply to
18.2-293.1 What article does not prohibit
18.2-294 Manufacturer's and dealer's register; inspection of stock
18.2-295 Registration of machine guns
18.2-296 Search warrants for machine guns
18.2-297 How article construed
18.2-298 Short title of article
18.2-299 Definitions
18.2-300 Possession or use of "sawed-off" shotgun or rifle
18.2-301 , 18.2-302
18.2-303 What article does not apply to
18.2-303.1 What article does not prohibit
18.2-304 Manufacturer's and dealer's register; inspection of stock
18.2-305 Description unavailable
18.2-306 Search warrants for "sawed-off" shotguns and rifles; confiscation and destruction
18.2-307 Short title of article
18.2-308 Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry; penalty
18.2-308.1 Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited
18.2-308.1:1 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearms by persons acquitted by reason of insanity; pena...
18.2-308.1:2 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons adjudicated legally incompetent or men...
18.2-308.1:3 Purchase, possession or transportation of firearm by persons involuntarily admitted or ordered to o...
18.2-308.1:4 Purchase or transportation of firearm by persons subject to protective orders; penalty
18.2-308.1:5 Purchase or transportation of firearm by persons convicted of certain drug offenses prohibite...
18.2-308.2 Possession or transportation of firearms, firearms ammunition, stun weapons, explosives or conceale...
18.2-308.2:01 Possession or transportation of certain firearms by certain persons
18.2-308.2:1 Prohibiting the selling, etc., of firearms to certain persons
18.2-308.2:2 Criminal history record information check required for the transfer of certain firearms
18.2-308.2:3 Criminal background check required for employees of a gun dealer to transfer firearms; exemptions; ...
18.2-308.3 Use or attempted use of restricted ammunition in commission or attempted commission of crimes prohi...
18.2-308.4 Possession of firearms while in possession of certain substances
18.2-308.5 Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited
18.2-308.6 Description unavailable
18.2-308.7 Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty
18.2-308.8 Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty
18.2-309 Furnishing certain weapons to minors; penalty
18.2-310 Description unavailable
18.2-311 Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc
18.2-311.1 Removing, altering, etc., serial number or other identification on firearm
18.2-311.2 Third conviction of firearm offenses; penalty
18.2-312 Illegal use of tear gas, phosgene and other gases "

[AK lawyer]

... How much of a search it was we don't know. Shining a flashlight on the floor? Lifting up a blanket? Is the first in plain sight and the second an illegal search?

No, the second would not be illegal either, assuming a legitimate stop, in this case for unlit headlights. Terry v. Ohio is still good law, last I looked.

[JudyKayTee]

If a person can drive around in a vehicle with firearms in Virginia without a problem, why do you think he was stopped? I'm guessing there's more to the story, perhaps a violation of Federal Law.

Whoops - reading into a question again!

So, based on what has been posted, it's an illegal search and seizure and the ticket(s) will be thrown out.

[odinn7]

Can you cite the statute that says this?

Because I looked, and didn't find one that does.

Sorry, I'm not a lawyer... I just know gun laws and Virginia gun laws are almost identical to Pennsylvania gun laws... so I briefly summarized. If you need the exact statute that states all this, in all it's length, here it is:

LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-308

[AK lawyer]

Sorry, I'm not a lawyer...I just know gun laws and Virginia gun laws are almost identical to Pennsylvania gun laws....so I briefly summarized. If you need the exact statute that states all this, in all it's length, here it is:

LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-308

I already cited that; It's not what you said the law is. Here is the heart of what you linked:

"... If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (I) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon... he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
... "

You said that transporting a weapon in a vehicle is prohibited with certain exceptions. That's not what section 18.2-308 says. OP claims he was charged with (having, apparently) "guns" in his vehicle. And, as I have indicated, there is no evidence that having guns in one's car (as opposed to concealed about one's person) is against the law in Virginia.

[odinn7]

I knew you were looking to argue with me about this.

Read it again... it does say what I said IF you read it all.
It all talks about needing a Carry Permit and when you are allowed to carry/transport without such a permit.
Section B covers who is allowed to carry/transport WITHOUT a permit and under what circumstances.

3. Any person who is at, or going to or from, an established shooting range, provided that the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

5. Any person carrying such weapons between his place of abode and a place of purchase or repair, provided the weapons are unloaded and securely wrapped while being transported;

10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel;

[AK lawyer]

I knew you were looking to argue with me about this.

...

No, I actually don't. And I don't think I will continue to argue with you; for two reasons:

1. The OP hasn't come back and probably wouldn't understand what we have to say anyway; and
2. When I point out that you are incorrect you come up with totally different and inapplicable language.

Have a good day.

[odinn7]

[*]When I point out that you are incorrect you come up with totally different and inapplicable language.[/LIST]

Have a good day.

I fail to see how that is any different than what I originally said other than I summarized the first time. But, you are the lawyer, I am not, so I suppose I could be wrong. I only speak from experience and having been through this but I admit, I cannot read law the way it is written... and I never will be able to. I am big on right to carry and have been through much involved in both OC and CC.

One thing I have discovered though, if the law has any gray in it at all when it comes to carrying a gun, the police will take it their own way and then it is up to the civilian and their lawyers to make it more clear to the police.

And you are right, he hasn't come back and he probably won't.

I apologize if I offended you.