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    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #1

    Apr 25, 2013, 06:22 AM
    Obamacare 3.0
    Remember that healthcare bill that was rammed through in spite of the American people's overwhelming objection? You know, the one that was going to let you keep your insurance, your doctor, the one that was going to "bend the cost curve downward," and be a boon to the economy? Yeah, the plan that's done exactly the opposite?

    Well, Congress is negotiating to exempt themselves from it. Seriously.

    Congressional leaders in both parties are engaged in high-level, confidential talks about exempting lawmakers and Capitol Hill aides from the insurance exchanges they are mandated to join as part of President Barack Obama’s health care overhaul, sources in both parties said.

    The talks — which involve Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), the Obama administration and other top lawmakers — are extraordinarily sensitive, with both sides acutely aware of the potential for political fallout from giving carve-outs from the hugely controversial law to 535 lawmakers and thousands of their aides. Discussions have stretched out for months, sources said.

    A source close to the talks says: “Everyone has to hold hands on this and jump, or nothing is going to get done.”

    Read more: Lawmakers, aides may get Obamacare exemption - John Bresnahan and Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com
    The reason they need to exempt themselves from the rules the rest of have to live under? They're afraid they might lose some good help.

    There is concern in some quarters that the provision requiring lawmakers and staffers to join the exchanges, if it isn’t revised, could lead to a “brain drain” on Capitol Hill, as several sources close to the talks put it.

    The problem stems from whether members and aides set to enter the exchanges would have their health insurance premiums subsidized by their employer — in this case, the federal government. If not, aides and lawmakers in both parties fear that staffers — especially low-paid junior aides — could be hit with thousands of dollars in new health care costs, prompting them to seek jobs elsewhere. Older, more senior staffers could also retire or jump to the private sector rather than face a big financial penalty.
    Fire the b@astards, every darn one of them.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #2

    Apr 25, 2013, 06:27 AM
    Someone needs to take that to the supreme court as a violation of equal protection...
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #3

    Apr 27, 2013, 02:17 AM
    Everyone that supported it is having 2nd thoughts... or they should . Last week Max Baucus called Obamacare a train wreck .

    Now ,the 22,000-member United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers and Allied Workers not only withdrew its support for the Act, but also demanded its repeal.
    Roofers' Union Seeks Repeal/Reform Of Affordable Care Act - PR Newswire - The Sacramento Bee

    The reason? ObamaCare subsidizes low-paid non-union workers in small companies that don't insure their employees, while leaving union shops with ObamaCare's higher health care costs and a 40% tax on Cadillac plans .That could be the final nail in the coffin of the union movement in the country . Their last big appeal was the generous benefits packages they were able to negotiate. Not only that ,but non-union contractors will have a competitive edge in bidding if the union shops keep their Cadillac plans.

    I know the Dems thought that they were screwing the rich when they added the tax. But I guess they had to read the bill to find out what was really in it.

    This is not the 1st shot across the bow by unions against Obamacare .

    Last January, Sheet Metal Worker Local 85 in Atlanta asked for new subsidies for lower-paid union members.
    Unions Seeking Special Treatment Under Obamacare Now Want Government Subsidies For Lower Paid Union Members - Forbes
    This past August, the Communication Workers of America and the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers went on strike against Verizon over health care cutbacks that came as a result of the ObamaCare Cadillac tax.
    Verizon union members say strike worth hardship - The Boston Globe

    And now that unions are turning against Obamcare ,the lapdog politicians they control are also having 2nd thoughts. Besides the Baucus critique ,Sens. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire and Benjamin Cardin of Maryland are saying that they are hearing from constituents about rate hikes, difficulties complying with the law, and being swamped by the implementation requirements.
    Democrats

    Sen Tom Harkin of Iowa is incensed by the adm. Decision to raid public health coffers of $332 million to pay for public relations for the health care exchanges.
    Harkin angry at Obama administration

    The Repubics have been against it all along ,and there is growing discontent amongst the supporters . To the accommodationist Repubics in the ranks who are crafting legislation in an attempt to make it work I warn ,don't go wobbly now.
    Explaining the GOP Split Over Repealing Obamacare - NationalJournal.com
    Do everything possible to prevent and stall implementation. It will be difficult enough to reverse the damage this law has caused now without allowing further implementation .
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #4

    Apr 27, 2013, 05:07 AM
    I can't imagine why Dems would worry about it now, can you?

    $332 million to tell us how great this train wreck will be, that's all? It's not like the admin has anything better to spend it on like health care or air traffic controllers.

    By the way, the shaming has worked. Boehner immediately jumped on the "full repeal" bandwagon when news about congress exempting themselves from Zerocare (I think that's more accurate than Obamacare). It took dems a little longer but they also caved. For now. They're actually still looking for a way and blaming the problem on Chuck Grassley because you know, it couldn't be their fault, they had to pass it before knowing what was in it and all that.

    “Due to vague language inserted in the Affordable Care Act by Senator Chuck Grassley, not all congressional staff and Members of Congress are treated the same under the law,” Hammill wrote, noting that “no one is suggested anyone be ‘exempted’ from the ACA.”

    Hammill added that, “Leader Pelosi has suggested as a possible fix to the Grassley language that all Members and all staff (committee, leadership and personal office) be required to choose exchange plans through the Federal Employee Health Benefit Plan. This fix would not require legislation and could be dealt with administratively and would not exempt Members or staff from any part of the ACA.”

    Pelosi told reporters Thursday that she has been in “close contact” with her deputy, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), about his talks to tweak health benefits for congressional lawmakers and aides.

    “Reading the legislation carefully as to what it calls for and what an exchange is, and what the federal employee health benefit plan is compatible plan under the exchanges, we just have to look at all of that,” Pelosi said.

    Obamacare exemption talk lights up Capitol Hill - Jake Sherman - POLITICO.com
    Depends on what the definition of 'exchange' is...
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #5

    Apr 27, 2013, 07:01 AM
    Nice right wing spin fellas, and kudos. To bad it's a bunch of bull. You guys have NEVER acknowledged the private sectors being behind the out of control pricing of health care services which escalates beyond what it has over the last few decades, and blame government which has NO control over the pricing until 2014.

    We have already seen what it will mean with Medicare as the prescription drug loop hole has been closing and the cost of drugs themselves have been reduced and will further be reduced.

    Indeed, all the private sector tricks may have caused the right amount of fear through uncertainty as companies restructure to maximize profits, WHILE THEY CAN, even they see they will have to change their business model drastically, or be driven OUT of business. The alternative will be no one can afford good health care in America, except the super rich.

    It was already headed that way. But I doubt any of you has ever looked at your hospital and doctor bills, and you should. Then you would know who is ripping you off, and its not the government contrary to popular right wing hollering points.

    Follow the money!!
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #6

    Apr 27, 2013, 08:04 AM
    Dude, you need say no more than dems are getting nervous about this albatross around their necks, one of the chuef authors calling it a "train wreck" and congress trying to exempt themselves from it.. And no, drug prices are not coming down no more than the price of insurance us going down. The spin is all yours, dude, you once again refuse to acknowledge the plain facts.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #7

    Apr 27, 2013, 08:15 AM
    That's the free market right of profit that you have defended for the longest, and now you find its YOU paying the price. You holler about costs so loud, but blame every thing but the ones who raise the prices.

    You would have better options despite the attempts to rob you if you looked around. Yet you blame everybody but yourself. That's sad.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #8

    Apr 27, 2013, 09:55 AM
    Dude, why do keep defending bad legislation that the people never wanted which the more we learn the worse it is? We have never denied our health care system could stand some improvement but your solution is not only just making it worse instead of better, you're jeopardizing people's jobs to boot. All those full timers going to part time is a real problem, and don't blame it on corporate greed, Zerocare caused this.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #9

    Apr 27, 2013, 10:28 AM
    QUOTE by speechlesstx;
    Dude, why do keep defending bad legislation that the people never wanted which the more we learn the worse it is?
    I respectfully submit all the so called facts you have learned are from the health care industry that profits from your ignorance and fear and KNOW that a full implementation of healthcare will drive down cost and delivery, and improve OUTCOMES. I question the veracity of your statement and assumption that that's not what consumers and citizens want.

    We have never denied our health care system could stand some improvement but your solution is not only just making it worse instead of better, you're jeopardizing people's jobs to boot.
    Again fact say that it will add jobs and create a field of employment to replace the manufacturing losses over decades. More doctors, nurses, specialists hospitals, clinics, and schools is sorely needed to meet demand that high prices and monopolies have used to suppress wages and employment opportunities.

    That means good jobs for folks and restoration of the middle class and the way to loosen up a tight labor market. Less unemployment to you conservative types. The demand I there waiting to be tapped.

    All those full timers going to part time is a real problem, and don't blame it on corporate greed, Zerocare caused this.
    The unemployment issue is a reflection of private business decisions. But of course blame government and not the job creators that don't want a living wage in any of their businesses. Just the CEO's and upper management. Workers can be replaced anytime, including YOU!!
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #10

    Apr 27, 2013, 01:17 PM
    I submit none of my facts came from the health care industry. They come from from everywhere BUT the health care industry and obviously it's getting under your skin. Face it Zerocare sucks.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #11

    Apr 27, 2013, 02:03 PM
    Maybe that's what you should look closer at, the health care industry. The facts you uncover will shock you. Is there a reason you look away from the ones controlling the cost and services they deliver?

    If so, please share.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #12

    Apr 27, 2013, 02:15 PM
    I had radiation for breast cancer -- over $800 for 40 seconds of radiation -- times 16 treatments. (They had wanted to do 35 treatments, but I talked them out of that notion.) A friend had a lump removed from her arm -- melanoma -- two surgeries because they didn't do the first one correctly, then radiation, and then a body scan that showed no spread of cancer cells. She has been told ("just in case") she should have a full-body scan every 3-6 months to check for cancer. Her doctor and the treatment center smile broadly every time she makes an appointment for a scan on their shiny, expensive equipment.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #13

    Apr 27, 2013, 02:32 PM
    Steven Brill did an article for Time magazine that will pop your eyes out. It's a must read to understand why your medical services are so high. Consider a $10,000 markup for Tylenol. The cheapest painkiller on the market that hospitals use.

    Even a street level dope dealer can do the math on that kind of profit. Why can't the right wing?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #14

    Apr 27, 2013, 03:41 PM
    Don't worry ,the death panel will take care of you. What do you think your auto insurance would be if you insured for an oil change ,a rotation of your tires ,or a radiator flush like you do for coverage of a hangnail ? The truth is that the profitability of the health care industry is in line with the profit rates of any other industry . (I know that is small comfort to you Tal since you don't think any company has a right to profits ) .

    As an example , food is as essential to a human ,even more so than health care . Yet no one complains that the food industry on average earns a 12.07 % profit compared to 12.22 % average for medical care . But so long as America thinks they need insurance for routine health care we will never solve the cost problems . Lucky for you I have a solution. We all should have health savings accounts to pay for the routine ,and we should supplement it with catastrophic care coverage to deal with WG's radiation treatments .
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #15

    Apr 27, 2013, 03:48 PM
    How much would that cost us individually? Medicare for all, birth to death, and eliminate the high cost of the brokers.

    How do you even buy insurance on Walmart, and McDonalds wages? Let alone fund a health care account?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #16

    Apr 27, 2013, 03:52 PM
    I though your side knew the answer to that... mandate it
    smearcase's Avatar
    smearcase Posts: 2,392, Reputation: 316
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    #17

    Apr 27, 2013, 05:33 PM
    This is my group plan insurer's plan for Maryland. But I don't have to worry because it just affects individual policies and small businesses. Yeah--- right.

    Health insurers propose rate increases - Baltimore Sun


    " CareFirst proposes 25 percent rate increase under health care reform
    Insurer said opening market to sicker people will drive up costs
    April 24, 2013|By Andrea K. Walker, The Baltimore Sun

    Blaming the cost to implement health care reform, the state's largest health insurer has proposed eye-popping rate increases to state regulators for individuals and small businesses.

    CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield wants to raise rates an average of 25 percent on those who buy coverage individually. Chet Burrell, the insurer's CEO, said the increase was needed to cover the cost of more sick people who will be joining the insurance rolls under health care reform.
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    People with pre-existing conditions were denied coverage prior to health care reform, keeping insurance costs down.

    In recent years, rates for individual insurance coverage have risen an average of 7 percent to 11 percent, according to various studies.

    'We have always supported the intent and goal of the Affordable Care Act, but this is the practical result of it by opening the pool to everybody,' Burrell said.

    The rate increase must be approved by the Maryland Insurance Administration, which indicated it would closely examine rate increase proposals made by CareFirst and other insurers who operate in the state.

    'I want to stress that these rate filings reflect the carriers' requested rates,' said Maryland Insurance Commissioner Therese M. Goldsmith in a statement. "In Maryland, the premium rate a carrier requests is not always the rate that is granted.'

    The rate proposals are for health insurance plans that would be offered under a state exchange — an open marketplace where people would be able to shop for insurance. Most people would continue to purchase insurance through job-based plans separate from the exhange.

    Burrell said small businesses purchasing through the exchange would see CareFirst rates rise on average 14 percent to 15 percent because of rising health care costs and new taxes, fees and assessments required under health care reform.

    Older individuals could see decreases under the proposed rates, but younger people could see increases of as much as 150 percent, reflecting limits on how much rates can vary based on age, Burrell said. "
    (see link for remainder of article)
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #18

    Apr 27, 2013, 06:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    As an example , food is as essential to a human ,even more so than health care . Yet no one complains that the food industry on average earns a 12.07 % profit compared to 12.22 % average for medical care .
    Of course we complain!! And plant our own gardens and freeze the harvest for winter eating. More and more people are getting a few hens to keep in their back yard. A milk cow will be next.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #19

    Apr 27, 2013, 06:38 PM
    Its important to remember that any increases the insurance company predicts is speculation, and a major excuse to raise rates now, just in case. (what do you think the excuse was 20 years ago?)

    Forget the fear and uncertainty for a second, and use logic. How many customers will a company have if their price tag is 25 percent higher than a competitors?
    smearcase's Avatar
    smearcase Posts: 2,392, Reputation: 316
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    #20

    Apr 27, 2013, 07:14 PM
    These are a few statements from some or all of the (Carefirst's) competiton in Maryland:
    "An Aetna spokesman said proposed premiums for Maryland small group plans would rise between 12 and 16 percent next year. United (United Healthcare) proposed average small group increases of from 15 to 28 percent, but premium changes could vary widely depending on the plan, said company spokesman Matt Stearns. "
    From: Maryland Offers Glimpse At Obamacare Insurance Math - Kaiser Health News

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