[Curtis Wilson]

No, you aren't. You are coming at me from the angle of someone who hasn't studied the Bible for very long, who has decided he is speaking truth, and who apparently has had no input from learned theologians.

I'm currently doing a phone survey of area ministers and priests. No one so far agrees with your take on the Garden and the trees and eternal life. I suggest you also do your own phone survey.

This is why the Church today is not where it should be. Men trusting in the traditions of man and not in the anointing of God, which teaches us all things, and is true, and not a lie. The Word of God becomes ineffective by mans traditions. Cursed is the man to puts his trust in the arm of the flesh..

[Wondergirl]

This is why the Church today is not where it should be. Men trusting in the traditions of man

I quoted the Word of God. You said it is not the truth and wiggled around God's very own words.

[classyT]

No, you aren't. You are coming at me from the angle of someone who hasn't studied the Bible for very long, who has decided he is speaking truth,.

YIKES!

I don't know how long he has studied the word but that's a little harsh. His posts are thoughtful and full of scripture. He doesn't sound like a new Christian to me. His heart is the right place. He is trying to back his thoughts up with scripture and I actually appreciate that.

I asked my sister over lunch what she thought and her answer off the top of her head was NO! They didn't eat from the tree of life. And I actually DO understand why Curtis believes it. It isn't far out there. In fact it is possible. But I don't think so... I mean if the Lord told me I could eat of the tree of lfe it would be my first pick even if I didn't understand what I meant. Regular trees.. vs. a special one... I'm thinking they headed toward that one. But I am reasoning

I believe the tree of knowledge represents the law... ( nothing wrong with the law but it can't make a man holy) and the tree of life represents grace which gives us life. I believe grace is a PERSON... Jesus Christ. I don't believe you can lose your salvation so I get what Curtis is saying.

[Wondergirl]

I know where Curtis is coming from too, but he is not correct. The verses in Genesis say he is incorrect. And I don't appreciate being preached to like I am some pagan from a far-off uncivilized and unChristianized land.

[classyT]

I know where Curtis is coming from too, but he is not correct. And I don't appreciate being preached to like I am some pagan from a far-off uncivilized and unChristianized land.

WG,

Okie dokie. I don't like to be talked down to like I don't know anything or that my theology is completley out there... so I understand.

[Wondergirl]

WG,

okie dokie. I don't like to be talked down to like I don't know anything or that my theology is completley out there...so I understand.

I'm sending you a Thanksgiving card too? ;)

Actually, I'd like to know how old Curtis is.

[dwashbur]

I do not see scriptures from a physical or logical point of view.

That's for sure, especially the part about logic, because there is no logic at all in your statements. You pull metaphorical statements out of poetry and try to make a theology out of it, somehow concluding that Jesus is this "tree of life." But you haven't made a case for that, you just claim spiritual superiority over those of us who actually wrestle with the language and all the rest. I find your whole approach offensive.

It's easy to toss a bunch of Bible passages around, and make it look as though they have something to do with your topic. But that's not being spiritual. It's being lazy. It's a cop-out. And I for one will not let that sort of thing go by unchallenged.

[dwashbur]

I believe the tree of knowledge represents the law ...( nothing wrong with the law but it can't make a man holy) and the tree of life represents grace which gives us life. I believe grace is a PERSON ...Jesus Christ.

So you accept that they probably weren't literal trees, then?

[Curtis Wilson]

I'm sending you a Thanksgiving card too? ;)

Actually, I'd like to know how old Curtis is.

I am ONLY 60 years young. Got saved when I was 26. But from a young child I knew the Lord had a call on my life, but I didn't understand it until latter in life.
I do not belong to any organized Church. I don't believe they are preaching the Kingdom of God. I am not saying all Churches are bad. I think there are some doing the Lords will.

[classyT]

Dave,

I can see that the tree of life could represent or be symbolic of the Lord Jesus.
NOthing wrong with reading the OT and finding hidden truths of our Lord Jesus in them.

[Wondergirl]

I do not belong to any organized Church. I don't believe they are preaching the Kingdom of God. I am not saying all Churches are bad. I think there are some doing the Lords will.

You are piecing this all together on your own?

[dwashbur]

I can see that the tree of life could represent or be symbolic of the Lord Jesus.
NOthing wrong with reading the OT and finding hidden truths of our Lord Jesus in them.

So you're finally starting to let go of your adherence to "literal interpretation," correct?

[classyT]

Dave,

Finally? No I have studied the bible looking for hidden truths and in the OT.. pictures of our Lord Jesus. I'm not a dunder head, I am not stupid and I am not nearly as simplistic in my studying as you think. I am just a student learning as we ALL are.

I believe the trees were really there and they ate from them. I just think there is a deeper meaning to them.

[Curtis Wilson]

You are piecing this all together on your own?

No, I am never alone in learning scripture. I have the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as my tutor. That's all I need. I never put my trust in man.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


Curtis :)

[Curtis Wilson]

That's for sure, especially the part about logic, because there is no logic at all in your statements. You pull metaphorical statements out of poetry and try to make a theology out of it, somehow concluding that Jesus is this "tree of life." But you haven't made a case for that, you just claim spiritual superiority over those of us who actually wrestle with the language and all the rest. I find your whole approach offensive.

It's easy to toss a bunch of Bible passages around, and make it look as though they have something to do with your topic. But that's not being spiritual. It's being lazy. It's a cop-out. And I for one will not let that sort of thing go by unchallenged.

Jesus's greatest opponents were the religious leaders of his day, highly educated. They thought they
Knew the Holy scriptures. Yet they didn't even come close to understanding it. Even so it is today, no
Different. The Apostle Paul warned the Church about these people in (Col 2:8). Paul, even said every
Thing he had learned as a pharisee was but dung. Pretty strong language for his time. I find the Word
Of God very simple to understand. I hear the Father, He teaches me, then I go to the Word of God. That
Is the divine order in how God works. After I learn something from my Father, I than begin to compare
Spiritual to spiritual that I already know as truth. If you try any other method you will always get it
Wrong 100% of the time.


Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Every thing I have posted here is not something I learned on the Internet, or from any theological book, or tape, cd, or teaching book. I know it is true, Wisdom is justified by all her children!!
Jesus had problems with people understanding his word even though he was anointed with power of the Holy Spirit. The problem was they had eyes to see but could not see, ears to hear but unable to hear.
They all had eyes and ears, but he was referring to the eyes and ears of there spirit. What are you using to hear and see his word?

Curtis

[dwashbur]

Jesus's greatest opponents were the religious leaders of his day, highly educated.

This is a common cop-out by those who don't want to exert the effort to learn. You claim you have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit guiding you. How do you know? Because you prayed? Big deal. Every cult leader in the past 200 years has done the same, yet they came up with some pretty wacky stuff. What makes you different? (Hint: Nothing.) You don't have God guiding you. What you have are feelings. For all you know, that feeling that you call the Spirit of God was actually something you ate for lunch. Feelings are no criterion of truth. Only proper learning, humility before God's word, and the iron-sharpening activity of fellow believers will actually lead you into any truth.

Every thing I have posted here is not something I learned on the Internet, or from any theological book, or tape, cd, or teaching book. I know it is true, Wisdom is justified by all her children!!

The arrogance in statements like this is mind-boggling. Let me tell you something, Curtis. I'm also 60, and I've spent over 40 of those years studying, learning, getting knocked down, having my entire theological row of ducks blown away and starting over, and wrestling with the most difficult parts of the Bible, to discover what it meant to the people who wrote it, why they wrote it, who they wrote it to, and how it's supposed to be understood. That's HARD WORK, and it's work that you are clearly unwilling to do. You claim that you can have the Spirit enlighten you without all that. So you're spitting in my face and telling me my life has been worthless because I didn't take the easy route like you did. My skin is thick enough that I can brush that off, because I know for certain that you're full of something other than the Holy Spirit. But I will tell you this: a smug amateur like you has NO business trying to tell people like me, or Fr. Chuck, or WG, or ClassyT, or anybody else here what the real game is, because frankly, we've paid our dues. You haven't. You've chosen to cop out and blame God for the stuff you come up with. Guess what: God had nothing to do with it. It's all your own ego, nothing more.

[Wondergirl]

I never put my trust in man.

But you are doing exactly that! You are trusting yourself to get it right.

[Curtis Wilson]

This is a common cop-out by those who don't want to exert the effort to learn. You claim you have the Father, Son and Holy Spirit guiding you. How do you know? Because you prayed? Big deal. Every cult leader in the past 200 years has done the same, yet they came up with some pretty wacky stuff. What makes you different? (Hint: Nothing.) You don't have God guiding you. What you have are feelings. For all you know, that feeling that you call the Spirit of God was actually something you ate for lunch. Feelings are no criterion of truth. Only proper learning, humility before God's word, and the iron-sharpening activity of fellow believers will actually lead you into any truth.



The arrogance in statements like this is mind-boggling. Let me tell you something, Curtis. I'm also 60, and I've spent over 40 of those years studying, learning, getting knocked down, having my entire theological row of ducks blown away and starting over, and wrestling with the most difficult parts of the Bible, to discover what it meant to the people who wrote it, why they wrote it, who they wrote it to, and how it's supposed to be understood. That's HARD WORK, and it's work that you are clearly unwilling to do. You claim that you can have the Spirit enlighten you without all that. So you're spitting in my face and telling me my life has been worthless because I didn't take the easy route like you did. My skin is thick enough that I can brush that off, because I know for certain that you're full of something other than the Holy Spirit. But I will tell you this: a smug amateur like you has NO business trying to tell people like me, or Fr. Chuck, or WG, or ClassyT, or anybody else here what the real game is, because frankly, we've paid our dues. You haven't. You've chosen to cop out and blame God for the stuff you come up with. Guess what: God had nothing to do with it. It's all your own ego, nothing more.

It is interesting that you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about. Yet I give many scriptures to prove what I say as true. Just because you don't understand them does that mean they are wrong? So far you have not quoted not even one scripture to disprove them, or are they only in you head and not in your heart were they belong? Which one do you accuse me of? You want to work for your salvation, and then boast about it in that you work hard to gain it. Sounds familiar to me...

2Ti 3:7 They are always learning. But they never come to know the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses. In the same way, the teachers I'm talking about oppose the truth. Their minds are twisted. As far as the faith is concerned, God doesn't accept them.
2Ti 3:9 They won't get very far. Just like Jannes and Jambres, their foolish ways will be clear to everyone.

I can not claim my own abilities to know God's Word. I am not a very smart person, but I do know the
Voice of my Heavenly Father, in which you do not.


2Co 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I'm doing. That will stop those who claim they have things to brag about. They think they have a chance to be considered equal with us.
2Co 11:13 People like that are false apostles. They work hard to trick others. They only pretend to be apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 That comes as no surprise. Even Satan himself pretends to be an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 So it doesn't surprise us that those who serve Satan pretend to be serving God. They will finally get exactly what they should.

Curtis

[Wondergirl]

It is interesting that you accuse me of not knowing what I am talking about. Yet I give many scriptures to prove what I say as true.

Even Satan quotes Scripture. It means nothing about faith.

[classyT]

WG

Seriously lets not compare Curtis to Satan. The Lord Jesus didn't die for satan, Jesus isn't interested in Satan's faith.

Listen, I think Curtis means well. Time will tell and I could be wrong. I think he wants to get conversations going and lets give him credit for that.

I am not put off by him NEARLY as much as I am someone who puts down the Christian faith and the belief the bible is the Word of God without error. He isn't on this board with contempt for christianity. We tolerate OTHERS who are clearly not interested in seeing people come to Christ Perhaps we can cut curtis some slack.

Curtis, curtis, curtis. I THINK I get you. I think you are on this forum to create discussion. That is a good thing. You are just not going about it in the right way. Those are my thoughts.