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    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Feb 5, 2013, 05:09 PM
    Lights intermittently flicker in whole house.
    Our lights intermittently flicker in whole house and have been doing so for about 3 weeks. Since it is intermittent, it took us a while to figure out what was going on and that it was not related to any appliance or the furnace. Week 2 we called the utility company and after 2 calls they came out an inspected the outside lines. Of course they sent the guy out in the evening. Anyway, he noted the neutral was secure at the line into the meter box and he said he tightened the connections at the pole. He said to check with the neighbors to see if they have the same problem. Checked with the neighbor who shares the same drop from the transformer and they do not have any flickering. During week 3 (today) had an electrician come out to look at our boxes and the meter box. He came out around noon on a bright day. He tightened a somewhat loose neutral and the main panel and then tightened another item in a sub panel. He also made sure that all other connections were secure. He also checked to see that the connections in the meter box were secure. None of the panels nor the meter box exhibited any signs of corrosion or arcing. I was present when he was doing the work. When dusk hit, I noticed that the lights across all circuits continue to intermittently flicker. The flickering pattern seems to be random in timing and length. One point of reference. The sub-panel controls all of the lights in the house across multiple circuits. The main panel came to play when a previous home owner in the 80s had an attached garage added, which was between the pole and the prior main panel (now the sub panel).

    Looking for any advice on the next course of action to take.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #2

    Feb 5, 2013, 05:52 PM
    Does every light in every room flicker the same flicker at the same time?
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #3

    Feb 5, 2013, 06:09 PM
    Yes, all lights flicker at the same time in the whole house.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #4

    Feb 5, 2013, 06:11 PM
    I don't imagine all lights are all on the one circuit breaker are they?I am thinking the whole house is losing power intermittently, does you TV flicker
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Feb 5, 2013, 06:29 PM
    The lights are on multiple circuits. There are no noticeable visible issues with the TV, computer, appliances etc. Even our lamps that are plugged into outlets flicker at the same time. So it appears to affect all circuits at the same time.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #6

    Feb 5, 2013, 06:32 PM
    I know the guy says he checked it but I still think you have a loose neutral at or comimg into the panel. If two electricians, onsite, could not find it I doubt if I will do better. Sorry I can't do more
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Feb 5, 2013, 06:32 PM
    The time between when the power company came out and the electrician came out I turned off all of the breakers related to all appliances (dishwasher, refrigerator, freezer, furnace, and stove). The lights continued to intermittently flicker.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
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    #8

    Feb 5, 2013, 06:35 PM
    Istill think the entire house is "flickering" and that will rake havoc on your appliance like freezer and refrigerator
    tkrussell's Avatar
    tkrussell Posts: 9,659, Reputation: 725
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    #9

    Feb 6, 2013, 03:44 AM
    A qualified electrician that has access to power recording instruments needs to come in and record your power to confirm the voltage is fluctuating, causing the lights to flicker.

    By using a recorder at specific locations , he will be able to narrow down where the problem exists.
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Feb 6, 2013, 06:00 AM
    I am going to call in another electrician. Any value in calling out the poco prior to that?
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Feb 6, 2013, 08:31 PM
    It took me 2 calls to get POCO (First Energy) out to the house. When I first called, we had snow on the ground and every day I would come home to see if there were any footprints by either the meter or the pole. After a couple of days of seeing no evidence that anyone came out I had to call them again. I am hoping that having 2 different electricians coming to my house will support my case with the POCO that the problem is on their end and they need to come out again and in the daytime. I hope that the electrician that comes out Friday finds and fixes the problem because it would be easier than having to deal with the POCO. If the 2nd electrician determines the problem is outside and the POCOs responsibility, any advice on how to get the POCO to be cooperative?

    Thanks again for all of those who have replied!
    tkrussell's Avatar
    tkrussell Posts: 9,659, Reputation: 725
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    #12

    Feb 7, 2013, 03:35 AM
    Explain to POCO that if the problem is with any of their connections, at the transformer or at your service connection, they are liable for any damage done in your home.

    For most POCO, any connections in the meter belong to the homeowner. New Hampshire, for example, POCO furnishes, owns, and maintains the meter socket, so need to confirm who owns what, with each POCO.
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Feb 8, 2013, 02:08 PM
    The 2nd electrician came out today. He tested the voltage and noted it was pretty even coming in. He torqued down the lugs in the meter box. Inspected both the main and sub panel. On the main panel, the main breaker would not shut off. They are ordering a new main breaker and will install it when it comes in. The box was installed in the 80s and is a 200 amp cutler hammer panel. Should the main breaker be hard to find? Hopefully when the new main breaker is installed it will take care of the problem.
    JoeDunn's Avatar
    JoeDunn Posts: 36, Reputation: 0
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    #14

    May 11, 2013, 07:01 PM
    jman2012,

    Is the Feeder between the Main Pnl and the Sub-Pnl overhead? If not overhead, is it direct buried or in conduit? It might just be a defective N between the Main and Sub. Stranded cable can be damaged when installed i.e. a kink in the cable might break a strand or two... and over time the arc across the stand increases as more or the conducter is arc'd away. At some point the conductor will breakdown and the arc will contune to spread to the two hots in the conduit.

    Checking for loose connections in either panel won't detect this sort of a problem.

    My suggestion is kill power to the sub-panel and then connect a temp lighting circuit to the main panel and observe if the problem is cleared. I believe you will find that lighting circuit will work perfectly. The next step is replace the sub-panel feeders…better to replace then all and bring the sub-panel up to code. Be sure to drag clean the conduit before pulling your new feeders. You might need to install (2) 5/8” x 8’ ground rods spaced no less than 6’ on center. They need to be driven below grade (about 6” will work) and be sure to use proper acorn connectors and one contineous #6 ground from both rods and back to the sub-panel. Check with local AHJ for additional guidance.

    Regarding the so called defective Main Breaker, changing it is not going to fix your problem.

    I've run into this many times esp on both 120/240 house wiring, detached buildings such as a Garage/Workshop and 277V site lighting. In one 277V application, 4 different conduits with #6 H-H-N-G, failed and when we removed the runs 3 sets were arc welded together the 4th conduit was melted out from the arc'n and needed to be replaced before running new conductors.

    Joe
    stanfortyman's Avatar
    stanfortyman Posts: 5,598, Reputation: 279
    Electrical & Lighting Expert
     
    #15

    May 11, 2013, 07:08 PM
    A few points:
    You might need to install (2) 5/8” x 8' ground rods spaced no less than 6' on center. They need to be driven below grade (about 6” will work)...
    Flush with the ground is acceptable. Deeper is fine as well.


    and be sure to use proper acorn connectors and one contineous #6 ground from both rods and back to the sub-panel.
    The #6 only needs to be continuous to the first rod. It is easier to pass through the acorn and on to the next, but it is not required, nor is it required to go back to the panel.



    And finally, in the three months that has passed I hope the OP has taken care of this issue already.
    jman2012's Avatar
    jman2012 Posts: 29, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    May 18, 2013, 07:34 AM
    Since February, the main breaker was replaced and this did not resolve the problem. I previously turned off all sub panels and all the breakers in the main box except for one and plugged a light into it and it flickered as well. We had the PUCO come out several times and they cut and reconnected all of the overhead feeds. Still flickers. Process took a bit long as one of the electricians we used had a relationship with the PUCO and they were able to talk directly with the supervisors vs. going through the call center. This worked out getting the overhead wires redone as they came out the next day. But getting them to put on a monitoring device was another story. I ended up talking to one of the engineers at the PUCO and he noted that they have seen power anomalies (similar to what I have been experiencing) along a certain corridor, of which I am part of. They have yet to pinpoint the cause of the anomalies. They came out and put a monitoring device on the meter. They recently took it off (within the last week). I traded voicemails with the engineer yesterday. He noted some fluctuation in the power coming in, which would cause the flickering. I will have more information hopefully next week as I touch base with him on Monday. I previously bought a voltmeter and noted the voltage would at times steadily jump in the range between 121 and 125 when the flickering would occur. Over the last couple of days, the flickering has been relatively mild. When there is no noticeable flickering, the power still does fluctuate, but a much slower pace and usually within a volt +/- of 123.

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