[Imedemerge]

Why do so many Christians ignore the peace teachings of Christ? Isn't it obvious that he did not come to establish a worldly kingdom? Yet, this administration and many of the Christians seek to bring about the kingdom through worldly mechanisms rather than through Christian living.

Just wondering.

Keith

[Avatar]

Could you be a little more specific with details? THanks!

[walt17]

One aims to change others; one requires you change yourself.

[Daniel Herring]

Perhaps we should embrace the bigger picture, and stop romanticizing our Lord. Yes, God is love -- but He is also a man of war.

[Imedemerge]

Romantic or not, the larger church is too eager to pull the trigger.

We have this aversion to thinking that someone who is willing to die for us might be committing a sin by being willing to kill for us. Most wars are fought for other than just causes such as fear, protecting possessions power and greed. In addition, there is a standard and perhaps unBiblical assumption that we are allowed or somehow required to physically defend ourselves and others.

Paul (a big advocate of supporting the rulers of law) wrote.. . “There is no one righteous, not even one;

11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God. 12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[c] 13“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[d] “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[e] 14“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[f] 15“Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16ruin and misery mark their ways, 17and the way of peace they do not know.”[g] 18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[

[hoeller1]

Ecclesiates
3:1 For everything1 there is an appointed time,
And an appropriate time for every activity on earth:
3:2 A time to be born,6 and a time to die;
A time to plant, and a time to uproot what was planted;
3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal;
A time to break down, and a time to build up;
3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn, and a time to dance.
3:5 A time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
3:6 A time to search, and a time to give something up as lost;
A time to keep, and a time to throw away;
3:7 A time to rip, and a time to sew;
A time to keep silent, and a time to speak.
3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate;
A time for war, and a time for peace.


Granted Most wars are fought for reasons that no war should ever truly be fought about such as fear, material ownership, pride, and greed. Even holy wars such as the crusades were fought for wrong reasons that is very true. However what most fail to realize is that these things (from a reiligous prespective) are already known to a higher being. How ever even the ugly side of life can be used for the betterment off all.

Take WWII for example - WWII was Hitler's cover for the annilation of Jews as well as other minorites in that time including Gypies, Poles and Homosexuals. When what he was doing finally became public knowledge society realized that the jews needed a homeland. Not saying that they handled that perfectly either, cause look at the mess we have now... however it heighted global awareness.

From that viewpoint while the church is a far cry from the first century church that is talked about in Acts, it is however doing the job that is needed for the current time.

[Imedemerge]

Yes, there was a time for sacrifice, a time for the law and a time for Holy Wars. Those were before the time of Christ. Unfortunately, now we as Christians are often just pawns in the worldly pursuits of crazy leaders.

I am curious who the "enemy" is that we are to love. Is that just the neighbor that infringes on our property rights? Oh, no, we don't believe that either because most "christians" would sue more quick than anyone. If we intend to kill bad people and we know that innocent people will get killed, is that murder? If we shoot to kill can we do it without the rush of hatred that is referenced in Matthew where Jesus talks about hating?

These are difficult questions that Christians tend to gloss over. If Christ didn't fight as a way of making the world better and eliminating injustices (everybody knows that there were tyrants worse than Hussain at the time of Christ) and He didn't use worldly power to overcome them and we are to be followers of Christ.. . It stands to reason that we shouldn't kill to further the kingdom. By the way, it never works anyway.

Where in the New Testament does it say that Christians should kill? Sure there was a time and there will be a time when Christ retuns but until then, we should be willing to lay down our lives not to kill others for the sake of the gospel.

Read with your eyes open, read with your heart open and you will see that the New Testament is much more concerned about the plight of the poor than the religious freedom of the USA.

[hoeller1]

I don't believe that we have gotten out of the time of sacrifices, the law or holy wars. Now their faces have mereily changed. Maryters are still to be found everywhere, look at the faith of some of the students in the Columbine shootings, or at the suffering of Christians, and followers all over the world. Heck, the presecution of many religions if not all in various communist state worldwide is still going on, In various Islamic states world wide there is death and destuction of religious iconography and followers that proclaim other faiths.

Granted there are many who claim to be followers of Christ and yet their lives are just as worldly and their attitudes are often worse than followers of other faiths. They often forget many of Jesus's more crutial teaching. You are right they are often more vengeful, materialistic and selfish.

And you are right, many of the Christian teaching have to do with passive-resitance, and caring for those less fortunate. The New Testament calls us to love all others no matter from where or what they hail. But that is not how it is everywhere. In America we are spoiled little children that often, and by our own chosing (we are after all considered to be isolationists by the world with fuels much of the hatred towards us) we ignore the plight and desperation of fellow believers worldwide expecting someone else to handle the problem.

As far as Christians and war-fare. Our entire believe system is based on sacrifice, our Savior after all sacrified himself for the world in the hopes that we would chose him. And now we are also called to sacrifice of ourselves. To feed and clothe the hungrey naked guy on the corner. To give up or time and often money to help those less fortunate then us. We still sacrific everyday whether by blood or not.

In war I believe that we should fight for by everyman that is fighting it means there is one less soul that is asked to come join the call of war. I would rather see an army of men who I know are all of my faith out there fighting and thereby save the life of othgers who are not of my believe and now may see Christ through the selfless sacrifice made by strangers for them. I goes along with the story of the man who was faced with his saving his son that he knew had already accepted Christ and saving his sons friend who had not. The Man choose to save the friend. Because of that sacrifie the friend also became a follower of Christ.

Men are put in there apointed place not by man, but by God. And while their motives are often not right there is a divine reason behind it that we often do not get to see. There are many times in my life that I have wondered why I have been faced with trials, and after waiting for a while have discovered at least part of the reason. Even if it was on a small scale.

Just remember the USA is a powerful and wealthy state, and power and wealth corrupts, even the most pious of souls. Always give room for humanity to be human, as selfish as it often is.

[Morganite]

Not all wars have the same causes, and not all Christians occupy the position(s) complained of.

A general approach to war or pacifism cannot address specific instances that could be in the mind of the demiurge but without knowing what they are it is not possible to frame an answer that will address the issue.

The statement by Jesus that his kingdom was not of this world, if it were his servants would fight, was said at the point of his arrest, an event that lead to his death. We should understand that his intention was not to say that his followers should never fight, only that, in the first place, he was about to make his own necessary sacrifician death, and, in the second place, his kingdom would not be established through violent or military means.

Should we take his remarks that he applied to two very specific events and apply them indiscriminately to all political aspirations of all people at all times? I think not.

Jesus said his followers ought to give to God what belongs to God and to the king that which belongs to the king. He did not omit military service.

Neither did he promote pacifism as a continuing principle to be adhereed to by his supporters. Pacifism stands back as evil makes inroads into the lives of people. Helpless laisez faire is not Christian. Christianity is a religion of action that requires Christians to do whatever they can to ease the burdens of suffering and want of all people, everywhere. That is in part what Jesus advocated by the story of the Good Samaritan. Do whatever is necessary to make your brother's life better.

Are there any specific wars that do not fall under these examples?


M:)RGANITE

[Starman]

Why do so many Christians ignore the peace teachings of Christ? Isn't it obvious that he did not come to establish a worldly kingdom? Yet, this administration and many of the Christians seek to bring about the kingdom through worldly mechanisms rather than through Christian living.

Just wondering.

Keith

The Bible tells us that in order to bring his kingdom rule to earth God will destroy all world governments opposing him. Both the OT and the NT point this out.

Daniel 2:44
And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall the sovereignty thereof be left to another people; but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.


In the book of Revelation, we are shown Jesus in command of a heavenly army of angels specifically for this purpose.


Revelation 19:13-15

11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

KJV

In short, the mechanism for bringing the Kingdom of God to earth is not dependent on Christians living a Christian life, it is dependent on God himself taking military action against the world's governments which are presently under the rule of Satan.

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. KJV

[fredg]

HI,
Even if all Christians lived life as close to the Will of God, as we understand that to be, there are just too many other Spiritual Beliefs in the World that contradict it. The World is really becoming "flat" now, with communications every day all over the World; fighting in other places than America, on grounds of Spiritual Beliefs.

[talaniman]

Do not confuse Christian teaching with politics, they have very little to do with each other as many who believe spend their lives doing charitable and good works, and go unheralded, but so many of the so-called compassionate conservatives who espouse family values never lift a finger to help anyone but themselves and their own. Unfortunately they are the loudest so they get heard the most.:cool: :eek: