[cdad]

I heard this in the news today and I find it shocking that it isn't being talked about. One of the rules in the new Obamacare affordable health care program is going to make things so expensive that you can't afford the premiums. That is insane to me. Yes, it seems to affect only a subclass of person (a smoker) but my thought is what comes next?

http://seattletimes.com/html/health/...yndication=rss


Does it mean that persons with long term health issues can suddenly see premiums that they can no longer afford?

What about diabetes ?

Or should they choose a class such as gays because of the risks of aids in the community ?
HIV among Gay and Bisexual Men | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

Should the elderly get dinged because they have the highest percentage of healthcare costs per capita then the rest of the population?

Are fat people next on the dartboard for increases ?


What do you think can happen?

[tomder55]

Yes see my post 'Obama 2.0' as Inspector Renault said 'I'm shocked ,shocked!! '

[Fr_Chuck]

My reading seems to show it is not health issues but smoking that allows them to almost double. So until smoking becomes a protected life style, I guess they can just all quit smoking to get cheaper rates, this way it is their choice, to afford it or not.

But the rates are so high now, if you are unemployed you can't afford it anyway

[tomder55]

The fact remains that this is the design. We were sold on this being a matter of cost and access . Well this is an early indication that the result will be higher costs ,and limits on access. There will now be a whole class of citizen who will be denied access to health care that previously had it.

Here is my posting on Obamacare 2.0
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...-a-730292.html

[talaniman]

Does anyone have any doubt that all cost have already been rising for decades? Or passing any costs on to consumers is what a business has always done? Or finding new revenue streams is what businesses do. They all do it, no matter the business. The cost to consumers in every facit of our lives from heating, food, and health care is always going up, hopefully so are your wages to pay for it. NO, too bad because the cost of living has never gone down.

I thought you free market capitalist would applaud the way businesses can innovate and make more money.

[cdad]

My point was to show how they seemingly can target specific groups at will. There is nothing in the obamacare plan the prohibits rates from going up so long as the numbers game can be proven.

[talaniman]

My point is specific groups have always been targeted. Read your own policy, does it ask if you are a smoker? I don't recall a time when they didn't.

[cdad]

My point is specific groups have always been targeted. Read your own policy, does it ask if you are a smoker? I don't recall a time when they didn't.

No they didn't ask for anything. I wasn't part of the process as I get mine through work and it is a group rate. The only difference is the amounts that are paid from single vs family vs spouse.

But the rates within the groups are the same.

[tomder55]

Or passing any costs on to consumers is what a business has always done?

Maybe they should provide services for "free " ? The real issue is that the so call solution to rising costs ;Obamacare ; is making costs explode. Well done... a typical progressive solution.

[excon]

Hello dad:

Obamacare was cobbled together to meet the demands of TOO many interest groups. It needs some tweaking. Time for Obamacare 2.0. I propose Medicare for all. That'll STOP price rises in their tracks...

Look.. I'm a MARKET guy.. I don't BELIEVE in government interference in the FREE market... I'm loathe to do it... But, when the market STICKS it in the eye of its customers, it's TIME to rein them in.

Medicare for ALL, according to Mitt Romney, will save us BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars. Why aren't conservatives INTERESTED in THAT money??

excon

[cdad]

Hello dad:

Obamacare was cobbled together to meet the demands of TOO many interest groups. It needs some tweaking. Time for Obamacare 2.0. I propose Medicare for all. That'll STOP price rises in their tracks...

Look.. I'm a MARKET guy.. I don't BELIEVE in government interference in the FREE market... I'm loathe to do it... But, when the market STICKS it in the eye of its customers, it's TIME to rein them in.

Medicare for ALL, according to Mitt Romney, will save us BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars. Why aren't conservatives INTERESTED in THAT money???

excon

So to bring about ver. 2.0.1 you mean they would actually read what they put in it? Surely since it was written into it in the first place someone had to be aware of it. Medicare isn't all it is cracked up to be or they wouldn't be pushing supplemental insurance to go with it. Is that going to be the unltimate solution like the one we already have? A 2 tier system? Or is the solution one policy for all and everyone pays the same no matter what ?

[talaniman]

Originally Posted by excon
Hello dad:

Obamacare was cobbled together to meet the demands of TOO many interest groups. It needs some tweaking. Time for Obamacare 2.0. I propose Medicare for all. That'll STOP price rises in their tracks...

Look.. I'm a MARKET guy.. I don't BELIEVE in government interference in the FREE market... I'm loathe to do it... But, when the market STICKS it in the eye of its customers, it's TIME to rein them in.

Medicare for ALL, according to Mitt Romney, will save us BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars. Why aren't conservatives INTERESTED in THAT money??

Excon

It's a socialist solution EX, and we ain't socialists. We are free market capitalists entitled to make as much loot as we damn well please and pay no taxes. Job creators know better than government how to extract... I mean earn money, and hide... I mean INVEST money.

Capitalists have the right and expertise to buy... I mean LOBBY the lawmakers for better rules so they can extract... Darn it, I mean price their goods and services,and have sweat shops... I mean foreign labor in countries with no rules, or taxes.

Ya know what I mean??

[cdad]

Its a socialist solution EX, and we ain't socialists. We are free market capitalists entitled to make as much loot as we damn well please and pay no taxes. Job creators know better than government how to extract...........I mean earn money, and hide...............I mean INVEST money.

Capitalists have the right and expertise to buy..................I mean LOBBY the lawmakers for better rules so they can extract..........................Darn it, I mean price their goods and services,and have sweat shops...........I mean foreign labor in countries with no rules, or taxes.

Ya know what I mean????????????????

The ones that seem to be worshiped by the libs like Apple and Google?

[talaniman]

So to bring about ver. 2.0.1 you mean they would actually read what they put in it? Surely since it was written into it in the first place someone had to be aware of it. Medicare isnt all it is cracked up to be or they wouldnt be pushing supplemental insurance to go with it. Is that going to be the unltimate solution like the one we already have? A 2 tier system? Or is the solution one policy for all and everyone pays the same no matter what ?

Universal health care with premium support based on income. No need for supplements.

[excon]

Hello again, dad:

I saw a scary add about Obamacare on FOX this morning. It sounded EXACTLY like an add on FOX would sound, with a stern doctor telling you HOW you can COMBAT, and PROTECT yourself against Obamacare. (Only $19.95, plus shipping and handling)

Obamacare has NEVER been portrayed accurately on ANY right wing media, so I'm temped to believe that the article YOU read, was just another of those anti Obamacre screeds we've heard for YEARS. You know the ones, like death panels...

That's why Medicare for all is a good law. It won't even take a full page to write. Everybody understands it. And, you bring up a good point, dad.. There's room for insurance companies to make money insuring the services that Medicare doesn't cover.

Who wouldn't LOVE a system like that?? Oh, I know right wingers don't... But, if they think about the MONEY, they'll LOVE it.. Money IS something right wingers think about, isn't it? Right wingers BUY insurance, don't they? Why wouldn't they like to pay VERY little for their insurance?? Why wouldn't they like all that extra money... We wouldn't have to cut a NICKEL from defense. That's GOOD, isn't it?

excon

[cdad]

Hello again, dad:

I saw a scary add about Obamacare on FOX this morning. It sounded EXACTLY like an add on FOX would sound, with a stern doctor telling you HOW you can COMBAT, and PROTECT yourself against Obamacare. (Only $19.95, plus shipping and handling)

Obamacare has NEVER been portrayed accurately on ANY right wing media, so I'm temped to believe that the article YOU read, was just another of those anti Obamacre screeds we've heard for YEARS. You know the ones, like death panels...

That's why Medicare for all is a good law. It won't even take a full page to write. Everybody understands it. And, you bring up a good point, dad.. There's room for insurance companies to make money insuring the services that Medicare doesn't cover.

Who wouldn't LOVE a system like that??? Oh, I know right wingers don't... But, if they think about the MONEY, they'll LOVE it.. Money IS something right wingers think about, isn't it? Right wingers BUY insurance, don't they? Why wouldn't they like to pay VERY little for their insurance??? Why wouldn't they like all that extra money... We wouldn't have to cut a NICKEL from defense. That's GOOD, isn't it?

excon

Im not opposed to a system that supports a basic level of universal coverage and a premium payer based model. Yes it is a 2 tier system. Lets look at it from a dental perspective as it is easy to follow.

You go in for your check up. It is found that you need a crown or cap. At the basic level your covered - no problem. You can continue to eat without pain. When it comes to getting that cap crown it may be stainless as that is what is covered under the "basic" plan. But should you be able to afford the premium plan then instead of stainless you can have a porcelain crown / cap instead. You still get to have no pain when eating and you don't have this shiny thing in your mouth by choice. Apply this same thinking to general health care and you have something I can agree with. Not everyone can afford a cadilac and that is just how the world works. When you give everyone a cadilac then you have made it too expensive to afford for anyone.

[tomder55]

And that is how private insurance would've worked had it not been for mandates... 1st from the State level ,and now Obamacare mandates. When you talk about choice ;you can't talk about mandates at the same time .

[talaniman]

I can go along with you get what you can afford. A cadillac, or a chevy, the goal is a good outcome. If you cannot afford a private room with cable, so be it.

[cdad]

I can go along with you get what you can afford. A cadillac, or a chevy, the goal is a good outcome. If you cannot afford a private room with cable, so be it.

Now we are getting somewhere :)

[talaniman]

and that is how private insurance would've worked had it not been for mandates ... 1st from the State level ,and now Obamacare mandates. When you talk about choice ;you can't talk about mandates at the same time .

That's not even how private insurance worked before the mandates. Maybe being a slave of private insurance is the problem, not the mandates. More choices maybe?