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Premarital Sex
I am a Christian, I take pride in that. But I want to take the time to ask a very serious question and maybe pose a new point.
The Bible definitely encourages couples to have sex "inside" of marriage, but where does it condemn sex "outside" of marriage. I have been hurt by "premarital" sex, so I know where I'm coming from on this, I'm not at all trying to encourage people to just sleep around, but in all seriousness... where does the Bible condemn sex outside of marriage Christians? Every verse that I've ever been shown doesn't condemn sex outside of marriage, I will agree that it does warn against sexual impurities, but it does not condemn it. Much like the Bible wars against alcohol, it does not actually ever condemn sex outside of marriage. Just because we've been told something all of our life does not mean it is true. I was tired of being told something with no proof so I went to God in prayer as usual. This is what he told me. 1)God asked me: "Why do you want this?" To be honest, I wanted to have sex with my girlfriend, I just wanted to know whether God was okay with it. 2)God then asked: "What does the Bible say about this?" I couldn't find anything that specifically condemned premarital sex, but I could just be an idiot. 3)God asked: "What exactly is it that makes you in my image?" I couldn't figure this out at first. It took me a little to understand why God had asked me this. The truth is, God made both man and woman in his image but he made man with a penis, and woman with a vagina. So how does that work, does God have both? Then I realized that the unity of a man and a woman in sex is how he "made" us in his image. The very ability to create like our God is what makes us in his image. Made sense. 4)Go then told me: "So what are you worried about? The truth is, everybody who tells you that I condemn premarital sex is lying to you. I don't ever condemn it. I DO warn you to be careful, but I NEVER actually condemn it. Its very much like how I want against alcohol, but I don not condemn it. Make sense? Now let me explain how I made sex. Sex is meant to be a unity between a man and a woman that brings them closer to me. People often see sex as an activity in which people "have sex" as apposed to "make love". Anyone who does not love does not know God because God is love. It is true that most sex today is sinful and full of lust and selfishness. But when you "make love" you are actually bringing me into the scene by "making God", the very phrase says it all. You are calling my presence into that situation. Sex isn't at all about the activity, it is thing that I developed to bring two people closer to me. It is not meant to be done selfishly or with the intent of "gaining" something from the other person. Both man and woman need to know that giving anything less than all of themselves to their partner is going to take away from the moment. Sex is less about "orgasms" and "feelings" and more about worshiping me and getting closer to me. The choice is yours my son." Now, Christians, if you can find some hard evidence to say otherwise, I'm going to believe what I believe. I'm tired of Christian's trying to guide my life with a bunch of rules and regulations that you can't even back up with the Bible. So tell me, is sex outside of marriage wrong? |
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The only time I bring God into my bedroom during the act of sex is when I am screaming out "Oh God! I'm almost there!"
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 Originally Posted by Enigma1999
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The physical pleasure of sex is the same for atheist, buddhist or Christian. The phyisical pleasure merely happens because of the way our bodies are designed. Gods plan of course to a Christian.
The difference is that for a Christian, the act of sex is really the marriage, the two people become one. Marriage itself is a civil act, in fact in the Old Testament there was no real marriage as we know it, just a contract between families and the husband when and took the bride. It was the sex act that bonded and in reality made them married. |
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Originally Posted by ZackeryBurch
The connection between two people can be strong, powerful, and at times... amazing. But... God doesn't have anything to do with that. ... |
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God then told me: "So what are you worried about? The truth is, everybody who tells you that I condemn premarital sex is lying to you. I don't ever condemn it."
I have been hurt by "premarital" sex
I'm tired of Christian's trying to guide my life with a bunch of rules and regulations that you can't even back up with the Bible
“I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything." 1 corinth 6:19 "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own" 1 corinth 7:9 "But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." 1 corinth 7:1-2 "Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband." hebrews 13:4 "Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." proverbs 5:15 "drink water from your own well, share your love only with your wife" songs of songs 8:4 "Promise me, women of jerusalem, not to awaken love until the time is right" Would you like some more? |
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Originally Posted by Riot
1 corinth 6:19 is also in context not talking specificly about sex, it is using a metaphoric writing talking about the person who is one with Christ doing any sin since that sin becomes part of that person, and they are then joined to sin and to Christ. Also it goes on to be specific if you have to try and make this literal in verse 15, about a harlot, (prostitute) it is not discussing sex with girlfriend or person engaged to. 1 corinth 7:9, Paul in his writing first starts the chapter out by saying it is best for a man to live without being married at all. So with this, you would have to agree that we are being told it is better for men to remain unmarried In Pauls writing he is talking again about the lust of the flesh, being consumed not by merely having sex. BUT? In the same Chapter over in 20 though 25, it is telling the man to stay in the same place as when he accepted Christ, it confirms and allows slavery, So do you accept that Slavery is biblical and that we could be allowed to own slaves by Pauls writing, or do you feel Paul changed from being literal somewhere in the same letter ? hebrews 13:4 Again, in this aspect, it is talking about a married person, the poster is not married and was speaking of sex with his girlfriend. So by ritual, once they have sex, they are joined and in aspects of OT law, married basically. Also the verse again addresses prostitutes, not 2nd or 3rd wives which have rules of behavior and allowed throughout the OT. proverbs 5:15 No idea what bible version you are using, this is not how that reads. There is nothing about love only one wife in any of my versions songs of songs 8:4 OK, wait till the time is right ? See nothing saying it is wrong, How many wives and concubines did the writer of this Bible verse have exactly? Lets look at some other verses Deu 25:5 If brothers live together and one of them dies without having a son, the dead man’s wife must not remarry someone outside the family. Instead, her late husband’s brother must go to her, marry her, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law. **It does not say if the husband brother is unmarried, married or not, he is to marry his bothers widow. NKJV© 25:43 David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel, and so both of them were his wives And David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he came from Hebron, and more sons and daughters were born to David. The Second Book of Samuel 5:13, In Exodus 21:10, a man can marry an infinite amount of women without any limits to how many he can marry. In 2 Samuel 5:13; 1 Chronicles 3:1-9, 14:3, King David had six wives and numerous concubines. In 1 Kings 11:3, King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. In 2 Chronicles 11:21, King Solomon's son Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines. In Deuteronomy 21:15 "If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons...." Ok, NT A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (1 Timothy 3:2 ) One has to read what it is also saying, that there were many Christians who had more than one wife, ( if not why the rule for leaders) It did not condemn having more than one wife, only restricts leaders from having more. had it been wrong or sinful, There would have been a Thou Shall Not. |
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I am NOT going to list bible verses as most have done that already. Paul speaks about fornication as a sin. He even says to FLEE it because all other sin is done outside of the body.. but not this sin. We sin against our own bodies and the Lord himself dwells there. It is serious.
Also... what did the Lord Jesus say to the woman at the well? He asked her to call her husband and she said she didn't have one. His reply was to let her know what she said was true. He reminded her she had had 5 husbands and the man she was living with at the present wasn't her husband. It is a BIG deal to God. Jesus who is our perfect example went so far as to say that even LOOKING on someone to lust was the same thing as having sex with them in the Lord's eyes. YES he made it so a man and a woman could have sex for the enjoyment of it.. but only in a covenant agreement we call marriage. Btw, your conversation with "God" wasn't biblical. God will never talk to you outside of the Word. In other words if HE speaks to you and it doesn't line up with his word.. it wasn't God. God gave you the bible, if you don't know it, learn it. He condemns the practice. I'd say your conversation was more within yourself... or even perhaps Satan. Satan also "reasoned" with Eve. Your flesh wants to do this... God will NEVER lead you to sin... only righteousness. We as people do not see sin like God sees it. It is serious. But Satan doesn't want you to believe it. He wants to down play it like he did with Eve in the garden. If the bible says to FLEE it ( and that is the apostle Paul who said it who is speaking directly to the believers today). It would behoove us to listen. God would NEVER withhold something from his people. He loves us too much. In the end it is for our benefit. But please don't be deceived, your bible does condemn it. |
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Fr Chuck, you seriously arnt condoning premarital sex are you?
By the way I was using NLT version |
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I am really intrigued by what has been said so far on this. Riot, tell me where in those verses that it actually reference "sex". If you can tell me and convince me that that is what it is referring to and not just what "you believe" it to reference, then I will admit that I have been deceived by Satan. But, I do not believe you can do that. Next, someone tell me what "marriage" actually is. Can somebody tell me what the definition of marriage is? Is it a piece of paper, or is it something that is deeper than that? I am married to my girlfriend in my heart. And I will swear my vows before my God, but is it that piece of paper that really what makes people "married"? I will have my girlfriend or nobody. And people look at me like I'm crazy, but after six years of telling myself the same thing I don't see it as crazy anymore, I see it as a sign of my commitment to her. God has given me nudges saying this is the girl I have set out for you, so why can't we have sex? I love her more than most husbands love their wives, am I to be denied sex because I don't have a piece of paper? No, I will stick to my case. There is a way to have sex outside of marriage and still be inside God's will.
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As a side note, that "piece of paper" confers all sorts of legal and civil rights to the married couple. You may sneer at most of them, but I have bumped up against many of the listed situations during my lifetime and was glad I had those marital rights. Especially important as we age are the legal permissions in dealing with your spouse's illness and hospital stays.
Marriage Rights and Benefits | Nolo.com |
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You are mistaking your own thoughts and imagination with an actual conversation with God. If you are speaking directly with him in full narratives, as you described here, why would you then bother to take your questions to an anonymous online forum? Certainly, God's instruction should be enough for you without our paltry opinions?
Others have done a good job of pointing out the many biblical references to sex being an act for marriage. If you need more proof, just look around you at how the growth in extramarital and premarital sex is working out for our society generally. Marriages are failing at a rate greater than 50%, teen pregnancy and abortion are both still at a high rate, more children than ever are growing up without a father. We want to make premarital and extramarital sex a good idea, the modern way, the "evolved" way but I don't know - I think we had something right when people waited for marriage, or at least the promise of marriage through engagement, before they slept together - and waiting to live together until they were married as well. Admittedly, I've not done it this "proper" way myself - I moved in with my husband for a year before our marriage, and was not a virgin when we married. In hindsight, I do regret it. I think had we not lived together, we likely would not have married - and would not have divorced ten years later. In other relationships that became sexual, I think the breakups were far more difficult because, at least for me, emotions ran a lot deeper - the hurt ran deeper, too when the relationships failed. Besides His teaching via the Bible, God also gave us free will, and we're each left to interpret what we understand him to want us to do. Personally, I think a more conservative approach makes more sense, is more practical, results in less hurt, is better for marriage in the long-run, better for kids, better for family finances - health, everything. Funny how when we move too far beyond traditional values, we often pay a high price. It's not easy though because I look at some issues, such as homosexuality, and I wonder, "who is hurt - why is this such a taboo". I think more people are hurt by homosexuality being condemned. For example, when, for religios reasons, a gay person feels forced to try to live a straight life - they suffer, the opposite gender person they attempt a relationship with suffers and pays a terrible emotional price, and the appropriate same-sex partner who is left without this person also suffers. I'd rather we just accept that we've learned more, we've evolved, and encourage gay people to be comfortable, open and honest with who they are - be with who they truly love instead of trying to live some fake life or double or hidden life to fit in with society. |
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First off, I'm not trying to remain anonymous. My name is my real name, you can Google it and you will find my face book, my twitter and a whole lot of other things that you will see as me. I'm not trying to remain anonymous. I believe this outright and I challenge any Christian to prove me wrong. And believe me, I know there are things that can go wrong. I'm not at all saying that people shouldn't be careful. I think that people really should be careful and that there are many ways that things can go wrong. My girlfriend is a prime example of this, she had "flings" and things like that. Does she regret them? Yes. Did they hurt me? Yes. Do I still love her, of course. I'm not trying to give people an excuse to have sex whenever and whomever they want, I'm challenging people to question why they believe what they believe. I do not feel guilty about losing my virginity to my Girlfriend. I am not ashamed, I will stand before the most high God and not feel any remorse for what I have done. As for my "mistaking" my "own thoughts and imagination for a conversation with God" that is for you to believe. I must just be imagining my whole life then... God must just not be present. God speaks to me daily. Believe it or don't, but just remember that those who doubt miss out on blessings.
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Premarital sex, was the issue here, and normally addressed sex between boyfriend and girlfriend who normally "think" they are in love and will be married.
This way of defining it, is what engaged was in the Bible. And even Martin Luther, in his writing, confrimed that sex between two people engaged was OK. Since it was the vow to be married. That the actual marriage was a civil issue, it was the vows between the two and the act of sex that actually bound them. In fact both NT and OT allow pural marriage. Having sex with the servant of your wife and having concubines was common place in OT and permitted by God. He may not have said it was OK, but he also did not condemn it specificly and it was done by almost every major leader in the Bible, from Abram on. It is the issue of how it is in your heart, just as hatred and anger can be the same as murder if you hold it in your heart. Does the sexual lust control you. It is just not in the bible exactly that sex prior to marriage is wrong if is with the person you intend to marry or in OT with those that you keep in your household. As much as my moral nature wants to disagree with Zachary, by many biblical scholars this is the understanding taught in many seminary |
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Zach,
You are not unique... your thoughts about being married in your heart are touching and important but fall short of a legal document. God thinks that " piece of paper" is important or else he wouldn't have told the woman at the well the man she was with wasn't her husband. God notices, it matters and YOU know it matters or you wouldn't have come on a Christian board to ask. God will NEVER go outside of his written word and tell you fornication is OK. Just marry the girl already. |
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Fr Chuck.
In OUR culture engagement does not mean marriage. Perhaps long ago it was just the same but it isn't now. That is why men and women sometimes have questionable parties before the wedding. So even if martin luther thought that back in the day, I am sure his thoughts would not be the same if he lived in this culture. Just my thoughts |
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Originally Posted by classyT
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WG,
I never ever said it was the same. I said PERHAPS it was. It was suggested it was... I don't know. I DO know being engaged today is NOT the same as being married. Hope I made myself clear. |
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Originally Posted by classyT
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Just a quick question, has anybody come up with some hard evidence for what they believe yet? This question was not really about premarital sex at all, but a question asking people to reevaluate why they believe what they believe. SO far nobody has given me hard evidence for what they believe. It just amuses me that so many people blindly believe what others tell them that its not funny. I brought up premarital sex because it is something I think people have been deceiving themselves about for quite some time. I'm not telling you that you are right or wrong, just to evaluate why you think what you do. That's all.
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