Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #41

    Jan 2, 2013, 01:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    When distorted, the word capitalism is a processes where statism is used to coercively create avenues of monopoly and political privilege. But you know and I know that is not what capitalism is about.
    So in your opinion what is capitalism about, exploitation of labour
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #42

    Jan 2, 2013, 02:40 PM
    I'm stuck in 18th century thinking as you know .therefore any modern definition of capitalism doesn't work for me.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #43

    Jan 2, 2013, 04:04 PM
    So your answer is yes then
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #44

    Jan 2, 2013, 04:28 PM
    No.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #45

    Jan 2, 2013, 04:37 PM
    You confuse me Tom you like eighteenth century ideas and yet you fail to acknowledge that eighteenth century capitalism was founded on slavery. In the early ninetheenth century men in other places threw off the yoke of slavery but these eighteenth century ideas you hold so dear were instrumental to holding the ideas and ideals of capitalist racism even into the twentieth century. It still a happens today you are content to buy the goods manufactured by workers who are treated like slaves but will not acknowledge this is the outcome of your capitalism
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #46

    Jan 2, 2013, 05:03 PM
    Yes you are confused .slavery predates capitalism by many centuries.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #47

    Jan 2, 2013, 06:37 PM
    That didn't stop it from being a tool of capitalism, capitalism has been around a long while, it is only recently that it became a highly organised system. Slavery was at the very base of capitalism in your country in the early days, you could not have achieved what you did without it, you had an incrediable level of slavery at least a third of your population were slaves. Your capitalists have not lost the idea that labour should be cheap and exploited for their profit
    Tuttyd's Avatar
    Tuttyd Posts: 53, Reputation: 4
    Junior Member
     
    #48

    Jan 3, 2013, 03:11 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    When distorted, the word capitalism is a processes where statism is used to coercively create avenues of monopoly and political privilege. But you know and I know that is not what capitalism is about.

    Ok, then Tom we will go with that. You obviously don't like labels.

    From now on I'll call the modern version of capitalism some sort of 'ism'. I'll call it 'x-ism'. In fact I will list all 'isms' under the single term, 'x-ism' So things such as, stateism, legalism, labour-ism, science-ism socialism, financial-ism and wrongly named, modern capitalism are all, 'x-ism' Obviously there are many other that could be added to the list.

    The capitalism you talk about that has not existed for 100 years or more is excluded from the category of, 'x-ism'. It exists as unique category in its own right. Will this make you happy?

    The question now becomes what do all these 'isms' have in common? I would say they all make use of elites. The knowledge produced is of a specialized nature and requires a high degree of organization. Efficiency, management and rational are the key worlds.Management tends to be hierarchical and bureaucratic in nature in order to achieve rational outcomes for the organization.

    These outcomes tend to be geared towards the marketplace of goods and services as well as the marketplace of ideas. The worth of the person is measured in terms of the his/her ability to produced stated goals goals.
    For example,Exxon, General Motors and the National Academy of Sciences would all be accommodated under this description.

    What makes it also interesting is than some of these organizations are quasi-governmental. In other words, they attempt to lobby government while at the same time providing professional services to governments. In this respect they differ from pluralist groups.

    Would you be happy with this explanation Tom?
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
    Ultra Member
     
    #49

    Jan 3, 2013, 07:18 AM
    Meanwhile, still no outrage over the one that "embraces science and technology" playing politics with science.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
    Uber Member
     
    #50

    Jan 3, 2013, 07:20 AM
    Have you not read the posts in this thread you started? The consensus is that it's american politics as usual, independent of who is in office.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
    Ultra Member
     
    #51

    Jan 3, 2013, 07:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Have you not read the posts in this thread you started? The consensus is that it's american politics as usual, independent of who is in office.
    And that justifies it how exactly?
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
    Uber Member
     
    #52

    Jan 3, 2013, 07:26 AM
    It doesn't, but it'll go on forever unless you make some changes in the way your elected officials receive funds from vested interests.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
    Ultra Member
     
    #53

    Jan 3, 2013, 08:10 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    It doesn't, but it'll go on forever unless you make some changes in the way your elected officials receive funds from vested interests.
    This was not about funds, it was about deliberately suppressing science so as not to pi$$ off his base before the election.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
    Uber Member
     
    #54

    Jan 3, 2013, 08:12 AM
    Whatever, it's the same result based on the same system.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #55

    Jan 3, 2013, 01:29 PM
    The system is so corrupt it will never change, too many rich politicians getting richer
    Tuttyd's Avatar
    Tuttyd Posts: 53, Reputation: 4
    Junior Member
     
    #56

    Jan 3, 2013, 03:46 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuttyd View Post
    .

    From now on I'll call the modern version of capitalism some sort of 'ism'. I'll call it 'x-ism'. In fact I will list all 'isms' under the single term, 'x-ism' So things such as, statism, legalism, labour-ism, science-ism socialism, financial-ism and wrongly named, modern capitalism are all, 'x-ism' Obviously there are many other that could be added to the list.


    The question now becomes what do all these 'isms' have in common? I would say they all make use of elites. The knowledge produced is of a specialized nature and requires a high degree of organization. Efficiency, management and rational are the key worlds.Management tends to be hierarchical and bureaucratic in nature in order to achieve rational outcomes for the organization.

    These outcomes tend to be geared towards the marketplace of goods and services as well as the marketplace of ideas. The worth of the person is measured in terms of the his/her ability to produced stated goals goals.
    For example,Exxon, General Motors and the National Academy of Sciences would all be accommodated under this description.

    What makes it also interesting is than some of these organizations are quasi-governmental. In other words, they attempt to lobby government while at the same time providing professional services to governments. In this respect they differ from pluralist groups.
    The reason I posted this was to show that 'statism' is an outmoded or an incomplete idea. Governments are not necessarily at the helm when it comes controlling social and economic policy. It is far more pervasive and insidious than that.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #57

    Jan 3, 2013, 03:57 PM
    What makes it also interesting is than some of these organizations are quasi-governmental. In other words, they attempt to lobby government while at the same time providing professional services to governments. In this respect they differ from pluralist groups.
    And many of them are created by government for the purpose of government having it's hands in the marketplace. The sole reason an entity would lobby is because it is the government that rigs the system in that direction. If the government is going to be the replacement to the invisible hand then of course people in the economy will act accordingly.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
    Uber Member
     
    #58

    Jan 3, 2013, 04:14 PM
    The sole reason an entity would lobby is because it is the government that rigs the system in that direction.
    Yes, by accepting bribes and voting in their favor - that's the process that needs changing.
    Tuttyd's Avatar
    Tuttyd Posts: 53, Reputation: 4
    Junior Member
     
    #59

    Jan 3, 2013, 04:22 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    and many of them are created by government for the purpose of government having it's hands in the marketplace. The sole reason an entity would lobby is because it is the government that rigs the system in that direction. If the government is going to be the replacement to the invisible hand then of course people in the economy will act accordingly.

    This is largely correct. The economic invisible hand in this case is actually the rationality that requires these type of solutions. In other words, it is a complete ideology that serves the purpose of statism. . Governments are one of many influential players in the game. No one is at the helm, it guides itself.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #60

    Jan 3, 2013, 05:33 PM
    The self regulating system, how nice, utopia at last

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Can you suggest a topic for my science investigatory project in life science? [ 0 Answers ]

Can you suggest a topic for my science investigatory project on life science for high school?

Science investigaroty project title-physical science category [ 1 Answers ]

I want to look for our title defense for tomorrow in research

Boyfriend moved stuff in, then broke up with me. Do I get to keep the stuff? [ 1 Answers ]

My boyfriend and I decided to move in together. He brought stuff to my apartment, and I got rid of a lot of my stuff to accommodate for his stuff (i.e, bed, TV, etc). Then he decided that we needed a new couch, so I got rid of my couch and he bought us a new one. Few months later and we are broken...


View more questions Search