[jnissen]

I have a new home that we have a spare bathroom that was rouged in. The home is slab construction with no basement due to the geology/hydrology in our area. The question I have is this:

I have a waste pipe for a future toilet sticking up out of the floor. It looks like it's made of lead. Is this just a cover that slips over the PVC waste pipe and keeps the cement away from the pipe? I've heard of foam insulation being used to do this but I'm not familiar with a lead cover. Seems to be about 6 inches in diameter and 12" up off the floor.

Do I cut this lead cover away flush to the floor and then (hopefully) find the PVC riser sticking out of the floor? All other waste pipes were PVC if memory serves me. I noticed this before the slab was poured. If I find the PVC pipe under there I can handle the rest. I've done a lot of PVC pipe and solvent work in the past so the reemainder of the job should be easy. Just never had any experience with a lead cover or riser. Is this common? Thanks in advance. :)

[speedball1]

I have a new home that we have a spare bathroom that was rouged in. The home is slab construction with no basement due to the geology/hydrology in our area. The question I have is this:

I have a waste pipe for a future toilet sticking up out of the floor. It looks like it's made of lead. Is this just a cover that slips over the PVC waste pipe and keeps the cement away from the pipe? I've heard of foam insulation being used to do this but I'm not familiar with a lead cover. Seems to be about 6 inches in diameter and 12" up off the floor.

Do I cut this lead cover away flush to the floor and then (hopefully) find the PVC riser sticking out of the floor? All other waste pipes were PVC if memory serves me. I noticed this before the slab was poured. If I find the PVC pipe under there I can handle the rest. I've done a lot of PVC pipe and solvent work in the past so the reemainder of the job should be easy. Just never had any experience with a lead cover or riser. Is this common? Thanks in advance. :)

I live in the Tampa Bay Area where all our houses are built on slabs.
I haven't run into lead plumbing for over 40 years so I rather doubt that they've started again. Your drainage will be PVC throughout your house. Remove the covering and let's see what's underneith. My bet's on a 4" PVC raiser. Cheers, Tom

[labman]

Tom is right. Not only is lead toxic, but it is expensive. I bet lead pipe isn't even available now. Likely the pipe is galvanized or tin. Tin is expensive too, but a little goes a long ways as a thin protective coat on steel.

[tommytman]

Probably a cover. Does it seem thick if you tap on it with a hammer?? Could you cut it with a reciprocating saw?? If you are worried about lead for some reason wear a mask when you cut.

Good luck

[jnissen]

I found out a bit more. I was told the pipe was PVC but with a tape wrap. I was also told it was insulation and the PVC was under this. None of the above was true. It really is a lead pipe as I scratched it and verified last night. Took the top off and it does not have a PVC pipeunder it. The pipe does connect to PVC but it's way down in the slab. I also talked to a local builder who confirmed it is lead. I don't know how they are able to still use this stuff but for waste connections evidently it's still used around here (Central Texas).

So now how do I solder on a brass closet flange? I've tinned and sweated joints in the past but I'm a bit leary of trying to solder a brass flange to a lead pipe using 50/50 solder. Seems like I'll need a fairly cool flame to do the job and need to pre-tin the flange while not installed.

My plan is to do the following:

1. Tin the flange.
2. Slip flange over lead pipe. Trim with a tin snip to about 1/4" above the flange.
3. Secure the flange to the concrete floor with SS lag type bolts.
4. Beat the lead over the flange to create a lip. Flux the joint and use low heat and 50/50 solder to solder the two together.

Is this it?

[speedball1]

I found out a bit more. I was told the pipe was PVC but with a tape wrap. I was also told it was insulation and the PVC was under this. None of the above was true. It really is a lead pipe as I scratched it and verified last night. Took the top off and it does not have a PVC pipeunder it. The pipe does connect to PVC but it's way down in the slab. I also talked to a local builder who confirmed it is lead. I don't know how they are able to still use this stuff but for waste connections evidently it's still used around here (Central Texas).

So now how do I solder on a brass closet flange? I've tinned and sweated joints in the past but I'm a bit leary of trying to solder a brass flange to a lead pipe using 50/50 solder. Seems like I'll need a fairly cool flame to do the job and need to pre-tin the flange while not installed.

My plan is to do the following:

1. Tin the flange.
2. Slip flange over lead pipe. trim with a tin snip to about 1/4" above the flange.
3. Secure the flange to the concrete floor with SS lag type bolts.
4. Beat the lead over the flange to create a lip. Flux the joint and use low heat and 50/50 solder to solder the two together.

Is this it?

I was exposed to lead piping up north back when I was a young man and have been a licensed plumber for over 55 years. It is inconceivable and unbelievable that any plumber in his right mind would convert to lead from PVC, (how'd he do that?) and then use it for a closet stub up. I'm going to give you several options.
(1) (And in my estimation the best) Break up the floor and couple a short piece of PVC for a stub up and install a PVC closet flange.
(2) You don't solder lead, you "wipe" it, and that's almost a lost art. When I took my apprentice course in Beloit Wisconsin we were taught to "wipe a lead joint" and had to do that to pass the journeymans license. But that was 61 years ago and the only time I've ever used it is back when we made shower pans out of sheet lead.
Having said that, I'll show you how to set a toilet to a lead stub up, ( and I might just be the last plumber alive who remembers.)
First of all forget about 1 to 4 in your plan.
Making sure the floor is clean and free of any debris we cut the lead pipe off about 1 1/2 to 2" above the floor line. We then take a small hammer, a curved wooden lead working paddle , ( all lead working tools are made of wood,) and VERY CAREFULLY begain to peen the lead over to form a lip.
After the lead flange is formed we set the toilet with the seal,( back then we used plumbers putty, nowadays the seals are wax,) on the lead flange and lag bolt the toilet to the floor.
You now have a history lesson in early plumbing and I seriously question the sanity of any plumber that would install such a "jackleg" rig. I still want to know how he managed to tie lead to PVC and why. Regards, Tom

[jnissen]

Thought you would like to have an undate...

Finally got the tile work and shower completed so I tackled this job. It was a lot easier than I thought. Yes the riser was lead. It is force fit into a PVC elbox below grade in the slab. Not sure what type of cement or glue was used between the two. The lead as it enters the PVC is necked down and extends into the pipe about 2". A rebar rod was taped to the assembly to keep it in place when the slab was poured. I had to cut the rebar off flush with the floor prior to starting. Used my Dremel tool for the job but an angle grinder could have worked faster.

Tinned the brass ring prior to fitting it over the riser.

Took plumbers emory cloth strips and cleaned up the lead near the floor so it was shiney. Yeah this is not for the faint of heart. I don't know how in the heck builders and plumbers still get away with using lead here.

SLipped the ring over the riser and took my hack saw and trimmed the lead about 1/4" above the top of the ring.

Secured the ring to the floor using anchor screws.

Beat the lead over the flange to form a flared end that matched the flange.

Soldered the flange to the lead riser taking care to only heat the flange and not melt the riser! Worked very slick and this thing is solid. Thanks for you guys that answered this earlier. Took me a few months to finally get to this part of the project but it's done now!