[bigdman]

As a college instructor, I implore you to run the other way as fast as you can. Besides being illegal in many states, you can read all about Kennedy Western University a/k/a Warren National University in any of the following articles and Senate investigational hearings:

*"Federal Employees Have Obtained Degrees from Diploma Mills and Other Unaccredited Schools, Some at Government Expense."

*"Diploma Mills are Easily Created and Some Have Issued Bogus Degrees to Federal Employees at Government Expense."

*"Bogus Degrees and Unmet Expectations: Are Taxpayer Dollars Subsidizing Diploma Mills?"

Other reading items on Kennedy Western University a/k/a Warren National University from various other exposes and news articles.

*"It May Take Hours, But You Too Can Earn a University Degree"

*"When Elected Officials Aren't What They Seem
Texas officials and Pennsylvania cats tout misleading credentials"

Whatever your major, there is a legitimate school offering the program online. From the Senate hearing that investigated them this is how they work (you can find in one of the above articles.) 1. They employ alot of telemarketers, about 60% of their employees. 2. They will waive about 50% of any degree for any "life experience". 3. A graduate "class" taken by an undercover agent, consisted of 1 open book exam where she picked terms out of the glossary.

So, we are all being untruthful and you are all-knowing on this subject, not having any personal experience with Warren? I would immediately suspect someone of either spiteful intentions, or personal gain, who would post discrediting fact's about one institution, while claiming to be a professor. No professor's I know 'and I know dozen's', would officially post to an internet blog about a competing institution. As anyone should know, every University in the nation has been involved in legal disputes, that is a fact. The fact also remains that Warren/ KWU won suit's that have been filed against them, several in fact. Yours is a classic example of "accredited puristicism", you think that any unaccredited program is not as good as yours, false. Good attempt at scare tactic's but fortunately people can research and think for themselves!

[bigdman]

Forgive me if this question has already been asked and talked about. I am enrolled with Kennedy-Western, and now have a bad feeling about them. I cannot find where they are an "Accredited" postsecondary school, only licensed in the state of Wyoming. Does anyone know and can prove to me that they are accredited by a viable US Agency? I appreciate any help!

Also, the degree is factually not "illegal", that is at the very least an inappropriate statement. Warren's degree's have been upheld in Superior court through the US free trade laws. You simply are not correct and should have better information when making such assertions.

[bigdman]

"They will waive about 50% of any degree for any "life experience".

Another false statement. I had an accredited two year degree, one year at a University and another accredited technical degree when admitted to Warren. I had to take 2 1/2 years worth of courses to satisfy my degree requirement's. Again, do a little more research, if you're a professor as you say, there's no excuse for such erroneous responses.

[AllyJo]

ProfessorR is it?

If you want to talk about a diploma mill, then you need to look at Almeda University. You can get a degree there in just a few weeks or even days. Did you you know that Oxford University hasn't always been accredited? I guess it was a terrible college for years, right? Also, Bob Jones University in NC is not accredited and is a wonderful university, offering mainly seminary degrees. Guess you wouldn't go to church if you knew your Pastor graduated from there, since all unaccredited colleges MUST be diploma mills and their graduates must be idiots, right? How ridiculous. Sounds like you need to go back to school Professor!!

[ProfessorR]

ProfessorR is it??

If you want to talk about a diploma mill, then you need to look at Almeda University. You can get a degree there in just a few weeks or even days. Did you you know that Oxford University hasn't always been accredited? I guess it was a terrible college for years, right? Also, Bob Jones University in NC is not accredited and is a wonderful university, offering mainly seminary degrees. Guess you wouldn't go to church if you knew your Pastor graduated from there, since all unaccredited colleges MUST be diploma mills and their graduates must be idiots, right? How ridiculous. Sounds like you need to go back to school Professor!!!

Yes, Almeda is another unaccredited instiution to avoid, like Kennedy Western a/k/a Warren National University, Rochville, and the rest.

To support the facts, you can read the Senate Hearing that investigated kennedy western University

From an undercover agent, Claudia Gelzer, who enrolled at Kennedy Western University.
*"Kennedy Western was prepared to waive 6 master's level classes in engineering based soley on my CLAIMS of professional experience"

Of the 5 remaining courses, she completed two graduate courses in 16 hours. These "courses" consisted of 1 open book exam, where she picked terms out of the glossary. Read the Senate investigation, it is public record.

*"In fact, documents produced by Kennedy Western indicated that nearly half of all students in the Master's program have received more than 55% credit for their experience"

There is also testimony from a fomer employee:
"As an admission counselor, I was required to call between 120 and 125 perspective students per day, trying to convince them that they should apply to Kennedy Western.

...The problem is, much of our sales pitch was not true. There is no admissions board. Applications were reviewed by one person. Of course, the applicant had excellent chances of getting in. In fact, I had never heard of an applicant being rejected.

We were also instructed to tell applicants applicants that they would be taking the same classes that students took at real schools, like Harvard or Princeton. I went to a real school, Kennedy Western is not a real school."

And, yes, there are a dozen states where it is illegal to use unaccredited degrees outright, with long disclaimers, or with restrictions. There is a current case of a Texas official who was discovered holding a Kennedy Western degree, who had to take it off resumes, stationery, and marketing materials.

Just the facts.
Look elsewhere, there are many legitimate online courses out there.

[ProfessorR]

"Also, the degree is factually not "illegal", that is at the very least an inappropriate statement. Warren's degree's have been upheld in Superior court through the US free trade laws. You simply are not correct and should have better information when making such assertions."

The use of unaccredited Kennedy Western / WNU degree titles is legally restricted or illegal in some jurisdictions.

Jurisdictions that have restricted or made illegal the use of credentials from unaccredited schools include Oregon Michigan, Maine, North Dakota, New Jersey, Washington, Nevada llinois Indiana, and Texas. You can check

WNU is also restricted from accepting students from Oregon, California Utah

Many other states are also considering restrictions on unaccredited degree use in order to help prevent fraud.

You can check with the Oregon office of Degree Authorization or the Specific state sites to see what the illegality / disclaimer / limited use restrictions are by state. The wording varies, but for example in Texas:

The State of Texas calls Warren National "University" a:

Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection

Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code

[bigdman]

"Also, the degree is factually not "illegal", that is at the very least an inappropriate statement. Warren's degree's have been upheld in Superior court through the US free trade laws. You simply are not correct and should have better information when making such assertions."

The use of unaccredited Kennedy Western / WNU degree titles is legally restricted or illegal in some jurisdictions.

Jurisdictions that have restricted or made illegal the use of credentials from unaccredited schools include Oregon Michigan, Maine, North Dakota, New Jersey, Washington, Nevada llinois Indiana, and Texas. You can check

WNU is also restricted from accepting students from Oregon, California Utah

Many other states are also considering restrictions on unaccredited degree use in order to help prevent fraud.

You can check with the Oregon office of Degree Authorization or the Specific state sites to see what the illegality / disclaimer / limited use restrictions are by state. The wording varies, but for example in Texas:

The State of Texas calls Warren National "University" a:

Fraudulent or Substandard Institution with No Known Texas Connection

Fraudulent or substandard degree" means a degree conferred in Texas in violation of the Texas Education Code

I am familiar with the reference you are citing, but apparently you have not researched it much, other than to cite direct quotes from a Google search. The restriction's you are mentioning, are that A) you cannot claim a degree from Warren to be an accredited degree and B) in some States you cannot procure a Government job with a Warren degree, again on the basis of requiring an accredited degree. Your reference to Washington in incorrect. Washington passed a motion to provide for such a bill, but it did not pass final vote. I am not familiar with Texas' law on the subject, but for as for any law in Texas specifically mentioning a Warren degree, I am very skeptical.

[bigdman]

I am familiar with the reference you are citing, but apparently you have not researched it much, other than to cite direct quotes from a Google search. The restriction's you are mentioning, are that A) you cannot claim a degree from Warren to be an accredited degree and B) in some States you cannot procure a Government job with a Warren degree, again on the basis of requiring an accredited degree. Your reference to Washington in incorrect. Washington passed a motion to provide for such a bill, but it did not pass final vote. I am not familiar with Texas' law on the subject, but for as for any law in Texas specifically mentioning a Warren degree, I am very skeptical.

With specific regard to Washington State, the following bill language applies to a degree from Warren. The subsection referencing "is an entity authorized as a degree granting institution by the board of higher education" applies.
Warren has always been licensed by the Wyoming board of higher education to confer degrees.
Another section that applies, references "in the process of applying for accredation".
Warren has been in the process of applying for accredation since 2005, which is a four-year process, I verified with the accrediting agency.

So, in other words, there are two section's, specific to the State of Washington bill you referenced, that was modified and did pass after several alterations, allows for a Warren degree to be used in that State in it's final form.

[AllyJo]

ProfessorR, regardless of what you have read, I actually experienced KWU and it is not a diploma mill. I know people who have worked at accredited universities and will complain about the university's ethics (or lack thereof), and contend that they, too, will fib to students to get them to enroll.

It doesn't matter what you post on here or what you claim you've read, I actually experienced a KWU education, am now enrolled at an accredited university pursuing my Masters (graduate this spring), and am very happy with the education I have received thus far. I have experienced all venues of education, from a local business college and university in my home town (where I completed 2 Associates and most of my undergraduate studies), to receiving my Bachelors online (thru KWU), and then pursuing my Masters (LU). All that matters to me is my own opinion and I feel KWU was the most difficult degree to obtain - everyone's experience is different. I don't care what a well-educated woman had to say about trying to pursue a degree she already had. No wonder the course work was easy!

[marktwain403]

False information

[marktwain403]

You're a complete idiot. I am absolutely a graduate of KWU and I DO know what I am talking about!! I do not work for the University and have never worked for the University.

I have two Associate Degrees from an accredited University, as well as additional undergraduate hours from the same accredited university - totalling around 185 hours in all. I completed my last 32 hours from KWU. I am definitely enrolled in the MBA Program at a regionally accredited university. Where I attend is none of your business; that's why we use user names on this forum!!!.

It may be that you can't get your credits transferred and so you choose to write false information or stereotype certain people, but you're wrong!! I was accepted by five accredited universities and I picked the one that was best suited for me. Not just one Harold, but five!!!

I am a director at a group specialty practice and over the past 17 years of my career, I have only fired three people. Oh, did I mention that I fired them because they looked good on paper and interviewed well (due to their college education from an accredited university), but couldn't do their jobs?

Accreditation only matters to fools like you!! Accreditation DOES mean that specific standards have not only been met, but it's been proven that they have been met. Accreditation DOESN'T mean "papermill" or "bogus". I think Webster would agree! Look it up - if you can read!! :eek:

You first denounce accreditation and then you say approving things of it. Not quite sure what your point is there. From your comments it appears that you got most of your credits from an accredited school. Could that be why you were accepted at other schools instead of your "credits" from the unaccredited school? Seems to me that you got hot under the collar quite quickly. Your experience is contrary to many of the "graduates" from unaccredited schools. Usually the degrees from unaccredited schools are not worth much, although there are a few exceptions, such as Bob Jones University. But the exceptions are extremely rare compared to the huge number of worthless "schools" without accreditation.

[AllyJo]

marktwain403:

If you are referring to my remarks about accreditation, I meant I understand what accreditation means. It's a confirmation that specific academic standards have been met based on the results of a survey. Just because KWU was not accredited (never applied for accreditation), doesn't mean it is worthless; it just means they knew they didn't meet some of the standards. I happen to know what a couple of these shortfalls are. To begin with, KWU didn't require a set amount of time for you to begin and finish a class. However, you were given a specific length of time in which to complete your degree - normally anywhere from 18 to 24 months. It took me 2 years to finish mine. Six months of the two years was spent on my research paper. Another accreditation issue was that KWU, at the time, didn't have classroom interaction. It was possible that you were the only student taking the class you were in, which left zero possibility for classroom interaction. However, within the past couple of years, that has changed, and blackboard is now an intricate part of their courses.

I know there are some diploma mills schools out there, but as a graduate from KWU, I know it's not one of them. The fact that 3/4ths of my classes were from accredited colleges may have had something to do with my getting into a regionally accredited university, but I really don't know the answer to that.

I am very passionate about the hard work and devotion I put into my time at KWU and get extremely upset when someone calls it a diploma mill. I am being completely honest when I say that the classes I took (especially the final project) were intensive and I put a lot of time and hard work into them. Does everyone who attends KWU (now Warren) do this? Who knows. All I can speak for is myself; however, I seriously doubt if my experience is unique in comparison to all the other graduates.

[ProfessorR]

I am not familiar with Texas' law on the subject, but for as for any law in Texas specifically mentioning a Warren degree, I am very skeptical.

Sorry, I should have provided the link

Kennedy-Western "University" / Warren National is SPECIFICALLY LISTED on the Texas Education website under the heading

"Institutions Whose Degrees are Illegal to Use in Texas"

THECB > Academic Affairs and Research > Private Colleges and Institutes > Fraudulent Institutions

The Texas Penal Code (Section 32.52) prohibits the use of fraudulent or substandard degrees "in a written or oral advertisement or other promotion of a business; or with the intent to: obtain employment; obtain a license or certificate to practice a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain a promotion, a compensation or other benefit, or an increase in compensation or other benefit, in employment or in the practice of a trade, profession, or occupation; obtain admission to an educational program in this state; or gain a position in government with authority over another person, regardless of whether the actor receives compensation for the position." Violation of this law is a Class B misdemeanor.

[ProfessorR]

Forgive me if this question has already been asked and talked about. I am enrolled with Kennedy-Western, and now have a bad feeling about them. I cannot find where they are an "Accredited" postsecondary school, only licensed in the state of Wyoming. Does anyone know and can prove to me that they are accredited by a viable US Agency? I appreciate any help!

Back to the original poster on what to do with your situation. I was able to find a Chronicle of Highered Chat transcript that I think addresses your problem very well.

The Chronicle: Colloquy Live Transcript

Question from Steve Keuper. Kennedy Western University:
Many students at KWU feel that the sales folk have mislead them about accreditation not being so important, is there a way to get our money back?

Alan Contreras:
You need to discuss that with the consumer protection offices in the California and Wyoming Departments of Justice. Because Kennedy-Western has an agreement with the Oregon Attorney General not to offer degrees to Oregon residents, we do not see their promotional material and we don't know what claims they make. Their degrees are illegal for use in Oregon and a few other states.

[bigdman]

Professor R, please tell me if Warren, formerly KWU won a Superior Court suit against Oregon on the basis of current (National) free trade laws, how Texas could discriminate against the use of that degree on the basis? The answer is they cannot. "Conferred" as you know, means one cannot receive a Warren degree in Texas, that is completely different than being awarded a Warren degree outside of Texas. You could even apply for a job in Texas with the degree, as long as you didn't receive it in Texas, apparently Texas is somewhat anal about their own school codes compared to most States. I've never been impressed with Contreras. Borderline idiot in my opinion, let's face it, State College enrollment = dollars for the State economy and any outside competition to State School's is not welcome in some States, for that reason alone, make no mistake it has nothing to do with "substandard" education. When was the last time you ever saw a State college on the "substandard" list? Never. Please don't tell my they are all great either, I've been to a State University and the quality of instruction was very poor at times. I had an Economics instructor that could not even speak clear English. I tried tape recording the lectures to see if that would help, it didn't, the man was still unintelligable and the average grade in his class of 75 people was a "C". Bottom line, College is a business and everyone has to make the best business decision for themselves.

[bigdman]

I would also add that for my own particular case, when I enrolled in 2004, there were no other online Environmental programs in the entire Country that I could have done. If other options had been available, I certainly would have explored them. The fact is there were no other options and at the time, KWU was setting the benchmark for environmental online education as ONE OF THE FIRST schools in the Country to use the blackboard system. Look at how many accredited school's followed their lead...

[ProfessorR]

Professor R, please tell me if Warren, formerly KWU won a Superior Court suit against Oregon on the basis of current (National) free trade laws.

Glad to clear up your confusion. The case was settled out of court, with both sides proclaiming victory. Result, KWU is still specifically listed and is illegal in Oregon.

As far as Texas, there have been recent news articles about Kennedy-Western University "graduates".

“Two less doctors in the house - Hebert, Wilson back away from Ph.D.'s issued by 'diploma mills'”

Or “Real officials, bogus degrees, Fake degrees a growing Texas problem”

“CBS 42 Investigates: Professors' questionable credentials”

[WWJD4U]

Forgive me if this question has already been asked and talked about. I am enrolled with Kennedy-Western, and now have a bad feeling about them. I cannot find where they are an "Accredited" postsecondary school, only licensed in the state of Wyoming. Does anyone know and can prove to me that they are accredited by a viable US Agency? I appreciate any help!

Ok... let me answer a few questions which I believe require attention. First, Warren National has made a change within their curriculum which was obviously required if they were to acquire accreditation through HLC. I am in the process of completing my degree in Management Information Systems from WNU. When I enrolled at WNU, I had previously acquired an Associates of Science degree from a local junior college. All of my college credits were accepted by WNU (as they should) with an additional percentage of my numerous hours of professional Microsoft, Novell, Cisco and other information technology training being accepted. However, I was still required to take 30 additional credit hours of class work or 10 classes. From my experience, I would challenge any prospective student to enroll and take a course with WNU. This school is not a DIPLOMA MILL. I earned my degree, thank you very much, with hard work, initiative and effort. Regarding accreditation, please visit the HLC or Department of Education web site. Of the 100 plus accrediting organizations claiming authority to authorize the status of accreditation in the U.S, the Department of Education only recognizes 8 of these organizations. That leaves many schools waving a false flag of accreditation (according to the Department of Education). Although recommended, accreditation is not even mandatory by our government or education system but is rather voluntary. Consider your sources when validating a school's acceptance status based on the word “accredited” appearing on its brochures or web site. The organization's accredited status with the Department of Education should be of more concern than the word itself. Warren National University is listed as being reviewed for accreditation by the Higher Learning Commission which is currently recognized by the Department of Education as an authorized accrediting authority. My question to all the “accredited” degree recipients out there, bad mouthing Warren National, would be, “is your degree TRULY accredited”?

[ProfessorR]

Need to clear up the confusion

"Regarding accreditation, please visit the HLC or Department of Education web site. Of the 100 plus accrediting organizations claiming authority to authorize the status of accreditation in the U.S, the Department of Education only recognizes 8 of these organizations"

Accreditation is confusing. There are 6 Regional Accreditors (the highest) and many national and programmatic accreditors. You can easily verify the legitimacy of your school at: User Agreement - A searchable database of accredited schools.

"accreditation is not even mandatory by our government or education system but is rather voluntary."

Department of Ed explains it well:

Frequently Asked Questions about diploma mills, fraudulent degrees, and accreditation. Among other things:

Accreditation is “voluntary,” so doesn't that mean it is optional and not necessary?

Accreditation is voluntary in that the process of accreditation requires the full cooperation with and complete participation in the process of accreditation by the college or university seeking accreditation. At the heart of the accreditation process is a self-study prepared by the college or university demonstrating its commitment to the standards of accreditation.

Since accreditation is the PRIMARY means of determining the legitimacy and quality of colleges and universities in the United States, to describe the process as "voluntary" is not to describe it as "optional" or "unnecessary."

[RedDogTech]

This has been an interesting thread. I am a KWU/ WNU student. I stumbled upon this while looking for something else. As far as the value of the degree one would earn from this institution, that would depend on the field the individual was seeking. It has been my perception, that the degrees offered from KWU were geared more for the mid-career professional, not the true freshman. I have one class left to finish my BSEE degree. I've spent 2 years attending LSU, 8 years in the US Navy (2 active and 6 reserve), and graduated from a technical college with a certification. Is the accreditation something of value? In my case, no. I am a mid-career professional, working for Dow Chemical in an engineering classification. I don't need an accredited degree for my job. In fact, there have been many who have been promoted to "engineering" jobs without any kind of degree (I have worked for 3 top chemical companies over the last 15 years). I researched this extensively before making a decision on the route I would take. I looked at many "accredited" programs all over the country. Unfortunately, there were no engineering courses available; only engineering technology (there is a difference). The only engineering curriculum's that are accepted in industry are accredited by ABET. You will not find an online curriculum that is ABET accredited. I actually contacted ABET and inquired about this (this was in 2003). They were familiar with KWU, as well as many other distance education institutions, and stated that the main reason for not accrediting any of these was the fact that they couldn't send a representative to sit in the class and critique the instruction.

As stated earlier, I attended LSU for 2 years ( I was also cross enrolled with Southern University at one point as well), an ABET accredited university. After returning from serving in the Navy, I married and now have four children. Going back to a "brick and mortar" university was out of the question.

Over the years, I have had the opportunity to work with many ABET accredited engineers. One, had a hard time understanding why his Poptart caught fire in the microwave while still in the aluminum foil wrapping ( he was an EE major). I work with process engineers that can't grasp the concept of process control.

Upon high school graduation, I had a friend of mine who was an excellent football player. LSU took him around to several ACT tests until he made >15 on the test, the minimum to get into LSU at the time (I believe that that has even been lowered since I graduated, to increase enrollment). I was taking evening classes when I returned from active duty and ran into my friend. He was graduating that semester with a Mechanical Engineering degree, with only 4 years at LSU.?

I work with an EE that boasts that he never made higher than a 50% on any of his calculus exams, but passed with an "A" in the class due to the curve.

I point this out because I am a student at WNU and know for a fact that the two calc classes I had to take, there was no curve. I had to pass with a 70% or higher, period. The circuits classes I took, no curve. There are thousands of accredited university graduates that should have never been awarded a degree (curves are a fixture of university life; make sure X% pass).

One of the attributes that impressed me about about KWU/ WNU, was the fact that the professors that KWU employed were either currently teaching at an ABET accredited institution, or had graduated from one with a PhD. The other institutions I looked into, although accredited by something (meaning= there are many different accreditations available), could not boast such credentials.

As far as some of the previous posts: Please, use the spell check feature located on the top menu bar of the text box. Although you may have some gripe that, to you, is legitimate, you come across as a bassoon. One of the first things that KWU required from me was to pass a literacy exam. Maybe some of you didn't get past the first step.

As far as "ProfessorR"; His bio doesn't say a whole lot about him, maybe he is embarrassed because of something. However, he never states in any of his posts that he is a professor, in an earlier post, he refers to himself as an "instructor" of online courses. My sister in-law is a professor, holds her PhD. From LSU. She confidently proclaims her title as "Professor."

As far as Accreditation: There are many different types of accreditation. However, not all are accepted by all.

Even if I had decided to go with a DETC accredited degree, I would not have been able to apply for certain jobs. I have a friend who is taking classes at the University of Phoenix. It is accredited, but he hasn't learned a thing. He is pretty disappointed with the whole program.

professorr: Do you work for UOP?

Below is the quote from the link professorr (I no longer use caps or quotes in his honor) has provided for us:

California Coast University on its Web site does claim accreditation by Distance Education and Training Council, but that agency is not recognized for accreditation by the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.

As for Warren National, it does not bother with any accreditation.

“The true recognition of a Warren National degree comes from its voluntary acceptance by the business, professional and academic communities,” states the school's web site...
I find interesting, and alarming, that he wants to toot this. For your inspection: California Coast University

DETC

Currently 12 post-secondary institutions are licensed through the state. Only one, WyoTech in Laramie, is accredited, although Kennedy-Western University is working to attain accreditation.

This institution (Cali. Coast Univ.) is accredited by an institution that is excepted by the majority of the 50 states. However, he wants to point out only the negative.

What do YOU want the degree to do for you? If you are able to go to a traditional "brick and mortar" university, then I would suggest you do so. If you are a mid-career professional, WNU probably has something that will be for you.

Accredited Degree does not equal career advancement. It really has to do with what's inside the person...

Best of Luck.

If you would like to communicate privately, PM me (since I can't get the email portion of the profile to work).