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JON LE MON · Jan 4, 2005, 10:20 AM

I have had this car for about 6 years. Shortly after we got it (6 years ago) we drove to California from Utah. In Reno when we stopped for gas (had been driving for a long time in the heat with AC blasting and temp gauge was near red when we stopped) and then went to start the car. Nothing, no clicking, no cranking, no nothing. Radio lights everything looks normal and powers up. Wait 1/2 hour it starts and we drive for 4 years w/o any starting trouble.
Last year in the Utah winters it would not crank if the car was cold and especially if it had sat for more than a day. Two factors seem to affect starting. Cold and length of time since last start. Now this year it is even worse. Sometimes it won't start at all even after holding key in start position for several minutes. Few weeks ago held in start and wife looked under hood and smoke was coming from starter. Not much but just a little bit. After 1/2 hour car started on first try. I had just verbally assaulted the vehicle but I think that is unrelated.
Have replaced starter, igniter, battery. In recent past.

In all the situations the same thing is happening. Turn key to start position and hold and the engine does not click or turn over. Summer is not a problem. We can't afford to move to Southern California where it does not get cold to fix this problem.

Help experts.

labman · Jan 4, 2005, 11:33 AM

Could be the ignition switch, the solenoid, or some of the wiring. Replacing the battery and starter should have cleaned up some of the connections. The solenoid is a short, fat thing about 2'' long with 2 big terminals and a little one on one end. Turning the key to start sends power to small terminal. That in turn connects the large terminal connected to the battery to the other large one which is connected to the starter. The solenoid may be mounted on the fender or directly on the starter. Have you wife* hold the key in the start position. Check the small terminal with a test light or meter to see if it is hot. If not, the problem is somewhere between it and the key. Another way to test this is, with the car out of gear, to touch a screwdriver to the small terminal, and then swing it to touch the terminal connected to the battery. If the engine turns over, again the problem is in the switch or wiring. The next step, again, with the car out of gear, is to start with the screwdriver touching the big terminal connected to the starter and then the other large one. If that turns the engine over, the solenoid is bad. Be careful. Be very careful. Touching the battery terminal and the body or frame can cause big sparks welding the screwdriver fast. It can also burn holes in steel gas or brake lines. Not good. You will get sparks too, not good if too much gas or oil around.

If the engine still doesn't turn over, it is bad connections somewhere. Don't forget to check the far end of the battery ground cable.

Let me know what you find. If it still doesn't start, I will try to figure out why.

*They are more cooperative that way. Always let them pump the pedal when you bleed brakes. I have managed to get good help out of the same one for 36 years this way.

JON LE MON · Jan 4, 2005, 12:06 PM

That was a fast response. The dealer has been no help in the matter. What's new. Thanks for the quick reply and I will let you know what happens next.

3 weeks ago I ran a large (8 gauge I think) ground wire from battery to frame as there is corrosion on the ground wire as it goes under the battery stand and into never never land. Just to eliminate that as a potential problem. That as you would have gueseed had no effect.

krysten · Jan 10, 2005, 04:57 PM

I live in LA and I have never had a problem. It has been raining non stop down pour for 17 days. Last night I went out and my car wouldn't start. It turns over but no fire. AAA came and got it started by adding fuel shaking it, I don't know what... He told me to keep it running, go get fuel cleaner and a full tank of gas. I did that and no problem. This morning I went out and same thing. It won't start. It turns over but that's as far as it goes. Tank is full. It's still raining.. What can it be? I have never had a problem. This is out of the blue. The last time I drove I (the night before last) and before all this happened it had never acted up or anything. It's a 92 with just under 85K. Please help

[email protected]

foulpalamont · Jan 27, 2005, 10:22 PM

I had the same problem and I knew of many people who had the same problem. I'm almost 99% sure it's your main relay... Period.

krysten · Jan 28, 2005, 12:10 AM

Turned out it was from the rain//// weird huh? As soon as it stopped, everythiing was fine..

labman · Jan 29, 2005, 07:30 AM

The rain will be back. You may want to look at the ignition system. Something may be drawing damp and shorting out when it is humid. If you have wires, a distributor cap, etc. you may want to replace them if they are over 5 years old. If you don't have them, it could be the coil packs.

foulpalamont · Jan 29, 2005, 01:54 PM

When it rains, or when it's REALLY cold out or even after you've just driven it and you get back into start it again and you have to turn it over about 20 times in order for it to start. It's the main relay. It's fairly cheap to fix.
B

JON LE MON · Feb 9, 2005, 09:26 AM

Last night its 25 degrees and windy @ 5:00 P.M. Car is dead cold. Won't start tried for 15 minutes of holding the key in start position.
Borrowed company truck to get home.
This morning car still won't start (shocker)
Had studmuffin (Shop Mechanic) determine power at starter solenoid when key is in start position and still won't crank. Hook remote starter up and it cranked and started. Put Starter solenoid wire back on and tried to start again and it starts fine. :mad:
WHAT IN THE WORLD IS GOING ON.
One thing is for sure the starter is good, or bad, or its something else.
Please help.

labman · Feb 9, 2005, 10:29 AM

Solenoids can be flaky. Sometimes a jump or in this case the remote starter may have just enough more voltage to activate a weak one. You need to try some of the tests I suggested in my original post, or just replace the solenoid.

thebriggsdude · Feb 9, 2005, 12:45 PM

Yeah deff the solenoid in my eyes, some will lock up and completely not work or some will work some of the time but then sometimes will not, I'd say just another solenoid and the problem it'll be gone. :D

JON LE MON · Feb 15, 2005, 12:01 PM

Its not the solenoid or the starter. Both work just fine. Removed and tested twice. The problem has been chased back to the fuse box under the steering wheel left hand side and the key. Wires are good to this point. Can start by jumping wire from starter to this point. It's a black wire w/ a white tracer. May end up installing starter button under dash as this is getting exhaustive.

labman · Feb 15, 2005, 02:19 PM

Intermittent electrical problems are a big pain. I fought them in my truck for over 20 years. Finally, a year ago I removed the fuse box, removed the riveted contacts, soldered the joints, and put it back together. It has run better the last year than it has since it was a few years old.

JON LE MON · Mar 21, 2005, 08:34 AM

Replaced Starter & Problem Went Away. So Problem Was Starter Or Solenoid. They Are One Unit On This Car. For Some Reason Hot Wiring Was Able To Start The Car All This Time. Just Took A Wire From The + Lead On Starter To + On Battery And Started It That Way For Last Few Weeks.

thebriggsdude · Mar 21, 2005, 12:18 PM

May have been something loose or bad in it to prevent it from working right. Never really can tell unless you take it apart to find out. Could have been the solenoid not making contact inside or it just wasn't making good contact with the starter

ajaybathija4 · Apr 9, 2005, 03:48 PM

Hey guys,
I am new this forum so I am not sure if I should have started a new thread or should just continue on this one as I am having a similar problem to this, but in my case the starter and the alternators have recently been replaced.

I have a 92 Honda accord lx with 141K on it. Recently I had filled fuel from Shell for the first time and after that I have been having a problem. This problem occurs randonmly or at least I have not been able to detect any particular pattern.

Some times when I go on a 5 - 20 minutes drive and the stop the car and after 5 minutes to 1 hr try turning on the car it will mostly start immediately without ony problems. But some times it will start and turn off in less than a 1 sec. At this point of time it seems that the fuel in the engine has got over. While my tank is full. This makes me feel that the fuel is not reaching the engine ( I don't know the exact terms of the car hence I am saying the engine). Then if I try to start the car again, it would go on crnaking but the car won't start as if there is no fuel in the car. At this point of time if I leave the car for few minutes like 20 or more and then try starting it again it would start immediately. Hence the mechnanic has not been able to detect the problem also. I am not sure if the heat is the problem as this mostly happens after a 5-20 minutes drive. Luckily I have not yet faced this problem on long drives or may be I have not been on long drives to notice the problem. Just to let you know the starter and the alternator have been recently replaced.

If any one has any idea how to solve or diagnose this problem please let me know

Ajay Bathija

labman · Apr 9, 2005, 05:06 PM

Is your fuel pump in the gas tank? Years ago, it was a very common sight the first nice day of spring, cars stalled everywhere because the higher vapor pressure ''winter'' gas was vaporizing when the fuel pump tried to suck it to the engine. If you have an external fuel pump that is maybe running a little hot, combined with a tank of gas a little high in vapor pressure, could cause just what you are having.

Not sure of a fix if so. Maybe as the tank drops a little, fill up at your regular place. You might also check the fuel pump to see if it is running hot, and cooling it. People used to use damp rags, or even ice packs.

CroCivic91 · Apr 10, 2005, 02:04 AM

Once again, this seems like a usual symptom of a faulty (but easily repairable) Main Relay. Main Relay gives power to the fuel pump when you're starting the car. Problem is usually heat related. Main relay is inside the vehicle (not under the hood), and when it gets warm (after you're driving for a while), the relay heats up, and some of it's joints mysteriously stop conducting electricity. You can easily fix it by taking the relay out and resoldering it's joints. It has been the first fix I did myself on this car, some 6-7 months ago, and it worked flawlessly since then. Mechanics here in Croatia also knew nothing about the problem, and I found a fix on this forum.

Anyway, this is just a brief explanation, and for a more detailed description of the whole problem and how to solve it, check this link:
http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...main-relay.htm

Let us know how it goes!

ajaybathija4 · Apr 11, 2005, 05:22 AM

Labman and CroCivic91:

Thanks for the quick response.

>>>>Is your fuel pump in the gas tank?

Labman, I am not sure of this, as I have not really ever worked on any car. I am originally from india and there the mechanics and the labor is so cheap that one really does not ever have to look under the hood and they almost always find out some round about solution for you. Even though I am very much interested in automobiles, I never looked under the hood.

I am very much interested in learning how the car works and there by learn how to take car and make the few possible repairs myself. I am not sure how to check where the fuel pump is. I had a look on the wesbite at the pics of the fuel pump, and will be looking inside me car if I can figure out where the fuel pump is.

CroCivic91:
I went through the link you provided and the symptoms they have given seem to be exact replica of the problem I have been facing recently. I will be trying to remove and repair the main relay next weekend and will let you'll know how things went. Hope I don't mess up the car more. :)

Thanks,
Ajay Bathija

meganl1984 · Apr 12, 2005, 01:38 PM

Yesterday I was driving down a busy road and I came to a stop light and I felt my car start to chug and that usually means it's going to stall. So when I started going my car shut off, wheel locked up and I was on the side of the road. This happened a few months ago but I waited it out and it started up 10 minutes later and haven't had a problem until now. This time, that didn't work and I ended up having it towed to a pepboys. They are running a diagnostic on why it won't start. Should I ask about the relay? I really don't know that much about cars and I don't want to get screwed over. I've had my 91 Accord for 3 years now and I've replaced the alternator 2 times, the O2 sensor once and the exhaust system countless times. Any advice would be much appreciated.