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pugster · Jul 28, 2012, 09:09 PM

Hi, my sprinkler system is leaking from the water tank part. I figure the diaphragm is bad. I am pretty handy but have never done anything like this before. It is hooked up to well water. How do I do this? I don't think that it is as easy as ordering the part ( I have had the house 10 years, the pump was already in but no sprinkler system was attached, they only used it for a hose to water the garden, sprinkler system for 3 years) and just attaching it or is it?
Any help/advice is appreciated!

hkstroud · Jul 28, 2012, 09:15 PM

Where is it leaking? A ruptured bladder (diaphragm) would not cause a leak you can see. That is assuming you have a bladder type tank.

pugster · Jul 28, 2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Where is it leaking? A ruptured bladder (diaphragm) would not cause a leak you can see. That is assuming you have a bladder type tank.

The tank is an ao smith model number V6P. When I came home this evening there was a puddle in my garage. When I checked for the source of the leak, I saw it was dripping from the tank on to the pump then the floor. When I googled the issue of where the leak was coming from I read that you need to replace the whole tank. I looked over the whole system, the water is somehow dripping from the tank. Any suggestions for me? Appreciate it!

hkstroud · Jul 28, 2012, 09:38 PM

Unable to find that particular model tank. Is it painted or a galvanized tank. If painted it will be a bladder tank. If galvanized it will be a pressure tank (no bladder). Really doesn't matter thought, if the tank it self is leaking it will have to be replaced. Doubt that it is really leaking from tank it self. If it is a bladder type the water is contained in the bladder. Therefore there should be no really rust to inside of tank. If it is galvanized tank the galvanizing on the inside makes them last a long, long time. Seen them last for 50 years.
Check again, more likely leaking from a fitting or piping.

pugster · Jul 28, 2012, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

Unable to find that particular model tank. Is it painted or a galvanized tank. If painted it will be a bladder tank. If galvanized it will be a pressure tank (no bladder). Really doesn't matter thought, if the tank it self is leaking it will have to be replaced. Doubt that it is really leaking from tank it self. If it is a bladder type the water is contained in the bladder. Therefore there should be no really rust to inside of tank. If it is galvanized tank the galvanizing on the inside makes them last a long, long time. Seen them last for 50 years.
Check again, more likely leaking from a fitting or piping.

http://www.accentshopping.com/product.asp?P_ID=150821
Llink to the tank. The tank is painted blue. There is only 1 line going to it and I didn't see or feel any water on that pipe or fitting that could be leaking there then dripping to the tank . Could it be possible that the bladder broke? Really trying to do this myself, money is really tight as my second job just went bye bye. If it really needs a plumber then so be it. Thank you for your time.

Mary

hkstroud · Jul 28, 2012, 10:01 PM

OK, 2 gallon bladder tank. Three possibilities. Leaking through hole in tank itself. Highly unlikely. Leaking out of valve stem. Means bladder is ruptured and Schroeder valve is leaking.
How much is it leaking, could it be condensation. Condensation should only occur if pump and sprinklers are running, assuming that humidity is there as it has been here the last few days.

The purpose of a tank is to extend the life of the pump. If this is for a sprinkler system its is not doing you any good. With a tank that small the pump is going to be running all time and that's all right.

You are If you are

pugster · Jul 28, 2012, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

OK, 2 gallon bladder tank. Three possibilities. Leaking thru hole in tank itself. Highly unlikely. Leaking out of valve stem. Means bladder is ruptured and Schroeder valve is leaking.
How much is it leaking, could it be condensation. Condensation should only occur if pump and sprinklers are running, assuming that humidity is there as it has been here the last few days.

The purpose of a tank is to extend the life of the pump. If this is for a sprinkler system its is not doing you any good. With a tank that small the pump is going to be running all time and thats alright.

you are If you are

Thanks Harold. No hole that I could see/feel. Not condensation as that has never happened before. Leaking a steady drip, good sized puddle on the floor. It is for a sprinkler system. I run the system every three days for a total of approx. 3 hours for all of my zones. If I order a tank, is the Schroeder valve a part of it or is that something else I need to order? Also, is this something I could possibly attempt on my own? (some of the things I have done are installed faucets, ceiling fans, light fixtures, dimmer switches, shingle repairs, carpets repairs, repairs to my camper, fuses and heating element in my dryer, install tile back splash, I love Google!)

hkstroud · Jul 28, 2012, 11:01 PM

If there is not hole in the tank then the leak must be coming from the valve. That means a ruptured or leaking bladder, but don't panic yet.

If the leak is coming from the valve you can stop the leak by replacing the needle in the valve, just like you would in a tire valve.

If this is only used for a sprinkler system, the tank is not really doing you any good. The purpose of a tank is to extend the life of the pump. Starting and stoping of an electric motor is harder on th motor than running. The fewer the number of times it starts and stops the longer it last.

Therefore, you don't want the pump to come on each time you get a glass of water. The draw down capacity of a tank, the amount of water it stores before the pump comes on again, is approximately 1/3 its total size.

With a 2 gallon tank you are only storing less than 1 gallon of water before the pump comes on again. As soon as you use that water the pump will run continuously. And that's all right, running is all right.

If the well and pump produce only as much or less than the sprinkler puts out the pump will run continuously. If the well and pump put out more than the sprinkler puts out the pump will shut off occasionally, but only momentarily. Only momentarily because you will immediately use that 1 gallon of water that has built up in the tank. That is no different than having no tank at all. To have any real effect you would have to have a tank in the range of 100 gallons. And then only if the well and pump can produce substantially more water than the sprinkler puts out.

To answer you question, yes the tank will have the valve. Plumbing should only be what ever is necessary to connect the pipe to the tank. So simple even a cave man can do it.

I'd just trash the tank and cap the pipe. Any well system that can run on a 2 gallon tank can run on no tank.

pugster · Jul 29, 2012, 06:57 AM

Ok, I am going to try it : ) will let you know how it goes. Tanks for the help, hee hee.

Originally Posted by hkstroud

If there is not hole in the tank then the leak must be coming from the valve. That means a ruptured or leaking bladder, but don't panic yet.

If the leak is coming from the valve you can stop the leak by replacing the needle in the valve, just like you would in a tire valve.

If this is only used for a sprinkler system, the tank is not really doing you any good. The purpose of a tank is to extend the life of the pump. Starting and stoping of an electric motor is harder on th motor than running. The fewer the number of times it starts and stops the longer it last.

Therefore, you don't want the pump to come on each time you get a glass of water. The draw down capacity of a tank, the amount of water it stores before the pump comes on again, is approximately 1/3 its total size.

With a 2 gallon tank you are only storing less than 1 gallon of water before the pump comes on again. As soon as you use that water the pump will run continuously. And thats alright, running is alright.

If the well and pump produce only as much or less than the sprinkler puts out the pump will run continuously. If the well and pump put out more than the sprinkler puts out the pump will shut off occasionally, but only momentarily. Only momentarily because you will immediately use that 1 gallon of water that has built up in the tank. That is no different than having no tank at all. To have any real effect you would have to have a tank in the range of 100 gallons. And then only if the well and pump can produce substantially more water than the sprinkler puts out.

To answer you question, yes the tank will have the valve. Plumbing should only be what ever is necessary to connect the pipe to the tank. So simple even a cave man can do it.

I'd just trash the tank and cap the pipe. Any well system that can run on a 2 gallon tank can run on no tank.

OK, dumb question now... I looked for a shut off so that when I change this thing when the part comes in water won't shoot everywhere. No shut off in the garage or outside of the garage where the spigot is. Since it is a well, will the water not come out unless it is pumped and I don't have to find a shut off?? (and yes I am embarrassed to ask, but hey learning new stuff is good!) Would like not to have puddle in this garage while I wait for it to ship. Is the only water to leak be the 2 gallons in the tank and nothing else?

speedball1 · Jul 29, 2012, 08:02 AM

Let me jump in on this thread, Unless I've mussed it you still haven't told us exactly what and where the leak came from, Ya just got to know if you have moisture coming from the top of the tank or the bottom. Would you care to share. If it's leaking from the air valve changing the needle won't help. You have a ruptured bladder and the tank must be replaced. If it's leaking at the tee connection this might be as simple as redoing the connection with Teflon Tape. Your tank might still be good.
But since you've ordered a new tank that's a moot point. If you don't want a puddle and wish to continue watering while you're waiting Purchase a plug and some Teflon Tape and plug the tee. Good luck, bTom

pugster · Jul 29, 2012, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Let me jump in on this thread, Unless I've mussed it you still haven't told us exactly what and where the leak came from, Ya just gotta know if you have moisture coming from the top of the tank or the bottom. Would you care to share. If it's leaking from the air valve changing the needle won't help. You have a ruptured bladder and the tank must be replaced. If it's leaking at the tee connection this might be as simple as redoing the connection with Teflon Tape. Your tank might still be good.
But since you've ordered a new tank that's a moot point. If you don't want a puddle and wish to continue watering while you're waiting Purchase a plug and some Teflon Tape and plug the tee. Good luck, bTom

I did not order the tank yet, was going to do that later today, it was really late last night. In the cold light of day I found the leak is the tank, right where it narrows down to where it attaches to the piping. It looks slightly rusted. It is leaking before the connection. So to stop the puddling, I need to remove the tank and just put a plug in at that spot until the new tank comes? Will there be a gush of water when the tank is removed? Last but not least it looks like it is just threaded on there, just need to keep turning the tank until it comes off?

speedball1 · Jul 29, 2012, 10:04 AM

I'm not convinced that you need a new tank. Id hold off on ordering it until we talk.

So to stop the puddling, I need to remove the tank and just put a plug in at that spot until the new tank comes?

I have a better idea. Let's repair what you already have. Shut the power off to the pump and open a cold water faucet to relieve the pressure. Unscrew the tank from the branch of the tee. You will get a little water but not a n"gush" If you see rust on the threads clean it off with a wire brush, Now wrap the male thread with three wraps of Teflon Tape and reinstall the tank. Test the air charge to be sure it's two PSI under the cut in point on the control box. Now leave the faucet open to bleed off the air and close the faucet and power up the pump. You should now have a working pump and tank with no leaks. Good luck and let me know how you make out. Tom

pugster · Jul 29, 2012, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

I'm not convinced that you need a new tank. Id hold off on ordering it until we talk.
I have a better idea. Let's repair what you already have. Shut the power off to the pump and open a cold water faucet to relieve the pressure. Unscrew the tank from the branch of the tee. You will get a little water but not a n"gush" If you see rust on the threads clean it off with a wire brush, Now wrap the male thread with three wraps of Teflon Tape and reinstall the tank. Test the air charge to be sure it's two PSI under the cut in point on the control box. Now leave the faucet open to bleed off the air and close the faucet and power up the pump. You should now have a working pump and tank with no leaks. Good luck and let me know how you make out. Tom

There is no cold water faucet, it is just a pump for my sprinkler system. The house is on city water. How do I test the air charge? Will go to the hardware store and get some teflon tape. Thanks for the help and your patience! Will let you know when I am done. Appreciate it.
Mary

speedball1 · Jul 29, 2012, 10:35 AM

There is no cold water faucet, it is just a pump for my sprinkler system

Then open up the system to bleed off the pressure,

How do I test the air charge

Leave the pump shut off. You will see a air valve on top of the tank. The PSI on the bladder tank should be 2 PSI UNDER the cut in point on the control box. In other words if your pump cuts in at 30 PSI the tank should be charged at 28 PSI. Good luck, Tom

pugster · Jul 29, 2012, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

Then open up the system to bleed off the pressure,
Leave the pump shut off. You will see a air valve on top of the tank. The PSI on the bladder tank should be 2 PSI UNDER the cut in point on the control box. In other words if your pump cuts in at 30 PSI the tank should be charged at 28 PSI. Good luck, Tom

Geez louise. I don't think I have a control box. I have the box on the wall where I program in what zones when etc.. then there is a pressure gauge that is reading 22 PSI. There is a small brass knob on the top, I am assuming this is the air valve.

speedball1 · Jul 29, 2012, 01:09 PM

OK! I figured you for a typical sprinkler set up.You just have a gray control box unless all you do is turn the pump on and off at a wall switch. Is that what you have?

There is a small brass knob on the top

On top of what?
I might have just been spinning my wheels figuring you for a typical sprinkler installation. Install the tank and give it a try. Good luck, Tom

pugster · Jul 29, 2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by speedball1

OK! I figured you for a typical sprinkler set up.You just have a gray control box unless all you do is turn the pump on and off at a wall switch. Is that what you have?
On top of what?
I might have just been spinning my wheels figuring you for a typical sprinkler installation. Install the tank and give it a try. Good luck, Tom

Thanks for your patience and help. The small brass knob was on top of the water tank, the grey control box on the wall is just the programming box for zone times etc... that's all I have. I'll just try the tape if it doesn't work I will replace the tank. The only other box there is is under ground where the all the pipes meet for the different zones. Thanks. Sorry to be thick headed but this was a new area for me.