[Skell]

Hicks: my life of terror and torture - World - smh.com.au

Gee I hope this isn't true but it is something we are hearing way too often.

The situation of this man will go a long way towards deciding an election in Australia this year. People down here have had enough of this war. Even though we are only contributing such a small number of troops it is a huge issue with the people. Many of which have never supported this war from the beginning.

[JoeCanada76]

Skell,

What a story indeed. The abuse is unimaginable and is very very brutal and heart breaking. I know there are many who were against the war from the beginning.

It sounds like it will become a big issue for an election and it usually does mean the downfall of a government.

Look at George bush and his government.

Joe

[Allheart]

Just to balance the scales. Never like to see abuse done of any kind. No American does.
That's why when it is discovered the perpritators are court martialed and tried and held accountable.

Too many of our soldiers are giving way too much to wear this black eye. I for one, am so sick and tired of hearing of abuse allegedly being done by Americans. I guess we are to shake hands and embrace those who fly planes into our buildings, blow up our Naval ships and behead our soldiers.

As with anything, there is bad within the good. Our people and our troops do far more good and yet, it's the negative that always gets the light shined on it. So very sad.

For those who won't mind reading a positive story of our troops, I share the below
Operation Iraqi Children: Mission Statement

[JoeCanada76]

Allheart,

You are correct it is good to have a balance and thank you from me personally sharing positive stories to make that balance. I understand your frustration because you do take it very personally when anybody talks about things that are negative in missions. We live in a world today that everybody, news, TV, people focus on the negative. That is probably why the world looks so terrible in so many peoples eyes.


You're the balancer of the scales and your such a beautiful person to do it. Thank you for being that balance from us, the people of the world that tend to focus on the negative news.

Joe

[Allheart]

Joe,

How do you say in Canadian - " I love you my friend' :)

Thank you. Honest. I'm sorry it effects me the way it does. Thank you for understanding me.

Not giving a hug this time, as I need one.

Thanks again Joe. Really.

[NeedKarma]

Joe,

How do you say in Canadian - " I love you my friend' :)

Canadian is the same as American, the language is English. :)

[Allheart]

LOL :) I know NK, I was just trying to be cute. Didn't work huh?

[shelley7180]

I'm embarrassed to be an American. Stories like this make all Americans look like monsters to the rest of the world.

In no way am I trying to condone what has happened at Guantanamo Bay, but the soldiers are only doing what US ELECTED officials tell them to do. The Marines in this country are broken down during boot camp, and then built back up. They are sleep deprived so that the become thoughtless robots that do anything their government tells them. It's kind of like how people train dogs to fight. (Which is a whole other topic that pisses me off.)

As a nation, we need to eventually get over the events that happened on 9/11, and get on with our lives. (I didn't say forget, so don't go all patriotic on me.) Terrorism will never stop. There will always be bad people in this world. It wasn't that long ago that we had concentration camps, I mean detainment centers, for Japanese people. Remember WWII? Yeah, the US beat and tortured Japanese in camps just like Hitler did to the Jewish.

This war is not about freedom, as our government likes to say it is. It's about oil and money. (Ever heard of you got to spend a little to make a little?) We are running out of fossil fuels. (Which is to be expected because they come from the remains of dead dinosaurs and such. There were only so many that roamed the earth. Just think, some day the Middle East is going to NEED the rest of the world. Ethanol is becoming a HUGE source of fuel. Ethanol is made from corn, and I'm pretty sure that corn doesn't grow too well in the desert. I say just sit back and laugh at the terrorists because they are killing their own children. They may be rich now, but their children will starve. The only ones that can stop terrorism are the terrorists themselves, and hopefully they will realize that sooner than later.

[shelley7180]

Here's another heartwarming story from the events of 9/11. Not all Marines are monsters. Some are WONDERFUL people that do very unselfish acts.

Jason Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Extreme Makeover: Home Edition

[Allheart]

Hi Shelley,

In total agreement with you about training dogs to fight. Just monsters who do that. Are they even human?? Anyway...

I wasn't defending the war. And I pretty much said what I needed to.

Don't be embarrassed to be an American, there are too many reasons to be proud.

LOL, promise not to get all patriotic on you... It's actually a 24 hr thing with me. Just can't help it.

[Allheart]

I do also want to say that in no way am I saying what Skell brought to light is acceptable.
It is not. Nor is it veiwed acceptable to the Americans that I do know.

As I said previously, I just needed to balance out the scales a bit.

Thanks for letting me do that.

[shelley7180]

I guess I should clarify. I'm not embarrassed to be an American, there's not a place in this world that I would rather live. It's embarrassing to be in another country while CNN is flashing a story about someone being tortured by US soldiers. They just assume that you are like that, and that's bad for their country. Wow, and it makes it really fun when you are in their airport trying to fly back to the US. You automatically go from well loved American to terrorist.

Allheart -- I wasn't coming at you personally. I actually started my post before yours was up. (I just had to take a sabbatical because I needed to do some work!)

[Allheart]

Oh that's okay Shelley. Honest :)

I can understand what you mean. Just breaks your heart to know we are viewed that way, when it couldn't be any further from the truth. I've never traveled overseas, but I could just see me in that airport. I'd be letting the folks know, we are not really like that. I really could see me doing holding a little improtu "meeting" Guess I better stick to home, huh.

I respect and love my country so much, but I also embrace all cultures and countries. I find it so incredibly intersesting. I have an open mind and heart, and I guess, I get upset when I am not feeling it back and not always for the right reasons. And more importantly, having our military viewed in such an ugly way. They give way too much. Just like the military do from all countries.

[magprob]

Fifty years ago, Harry Truman replaced the old republic with a national-security state whose sole purpose is to wage perpetual wars, hot, cold, and tepid. Exact date of replacement? February 27, 1947. Place: White House Cabinet Room. Cast: Truman, Undersecretary of State Dean Acheson, a handful of congressional leaders. Republican senator Arthur Vandenberg told Truman that he could have his militarized economy only if he first “scared the hell out of the American people” that the Russians were coming. Truman obliged. The perpetual war began. Representative government of, by, and for the people is now a faded memory. Only corporate America enjoys representation by the Congresses and presidents that it pays for in an arrangement where no one is entirely accountable because those who have bought the government also own the media. Now, with the revolt of the Praetorian Guard at the Pentagon, we are entering a new and dangerous phase. Although we regularly stigmatize other societies as rogue states, we ourselves have become the largest rogue state of all. We honor no treaties. We spurn international courts. We strike unilaterally wherever we choose. We give orders to the United Nations but do not pay our dues. We complain of terrorism, yet our empire is now the greatest terrorist of all. We bomb, invade, subvert other states.
Although We the People of the United States are the sole source of legitimate authority in this land, we are no longer represented in Congress Assembled. Our Congress has been hijacked by corporate America and its enforcer, the imperial military machine. We the unrepresented People of the United States are as much victims of this militarized government as the Panamanians, Iraqis, or Somalians. We have allowed our institutions to be taken over in the name of a globalized American empire that is totally alien in concept to anything our founders had in mind. I suspect that it is far too late in the day for us to restore the republic that we lost a half-century ago.

Gore Vidal
Perpetual War For Perpetual Peace

[Skell]

I just wanted to say too in response to Allhearts great posts that this wasn't at all meant to be an American bashing exercise. Not into that at all. A majority of Australians, including me, are very proud of relationship with the US and also our British ancestors. And like Joe said you showed your beauty and warmth as ever Allheart by balancing the scales and showing us the positive in this world. Makes me regret I posted this thread in a way but when reading it I was horrified.

And if it is true, I am no naïve and narrow minded enough to blame the soldiers of the US Army for any of this. It goes far beyond that. Hences I brought up OUR Government and their frailty on this issue.

I also don't think that Australia and Australians would not be guilty of such things either. We certainly would be.

Just wanted to clear it up that it certainly wasn't American bashing!

[Skell]

And Allheart you don't need to be at the airport letting people know that you aren't really that way. You do a perfect job of it here in our little international society. Most people I know don't ever blame the US people. Most of us are smarter than that!

It isn't a reflection on you the people at all. And if others let it reflect on you guys then they are most probably that ignorant and stupid themselves that I wouldn't worry what they thought of you!

[Allheart]

I'm proud to know you Skell and thanks. :)

[chuff]

As always it's okay for anyone to terrorize and torture US soldiers and citizens which will be fully supported or flat out ignored by the CNN or the New York Times or any other news organization with a similar agenda. When coalition forces are beheaded, abused, kidnapped, blown up, have body parts removed by fun loving al Qaeda that will be deemed perfectly acceptable. Actually it will be ignored because there’s such a selective outrage that it’s quite mind boggling.

I watched a video of a “peace rally” (to even call it that is beyond laughable) where one guy who looked to be drugged up, and who claimed to be a person of peace and tolerance stated very angrily and I quote, “I’d rather vote for a single cell organism then George Bush.” Others held up signs that showed George Bush with the Hitler mustache. I mean I laughed at these idiots because they were beyond stupid and they have no clue what there talking about, and to be so filled with hate but be at a “peace rally” was ridicules. It blows me away that people like that can roam free. But if you want to be filled with such hate then I guess that’s your deal.

Speaking of which, in the United States, many Democrats who previously backed and okayed George Bush on the war flip flopped and changed there ways when they looked deep in there souls and determined that it was not good for the country……oh wait I mean when it became unpopular and they could use it for votes. So they ran on taking back the house and senate and won solely based on pulling out of the war. They’ve been in power since January and haven’t done one damn thing other then give themselves more days off and OKAY more war funding. So where is CNN and the New York Times with the outrage now? Non existent. Just like the torture, it’s okay for it to happen to coalition forces and civilians but the moment a couple of “possible” terrorists get hit in the back of the head I’m supposed to join the agenda outlined by the one sided press and be upset. I’d rather think for myself.

[JoeCanada76]

Chuff, Like always you spoke very well.

The media does influence the masses and they do focus on the dark side, but just the one.

[Skell]

I totally agree Chuff. Completely. In fact I have discussed the morals and ethics of CNN and other media outlets in some other threads here in the past. I have some very stern opinions on the media and their role in war and every facet of life for that matter.

I was lucky enough to study a satirical show in Australia called Frontline while at school so am very aware of the issues you raise.

I regret posting this thread now because I fear I have offended some of my American friends. Not my intention.

Two wrongs don't make a right though!!