[ForeverZero]

Entire story merged

I mainly post to offer my story to help anyone else that ends up in the situation I'm in, there's really little I can do at present, but I suppose advice never hurts.

We dated for 2 years, we're both 21 in college. It wasn't a perfect relationship, but we mainly had the same fight over and over. She would do things that made me feel like I wasn't important to her, garden variety example: This dude she was seeing briefly years before we met would try to talk her into having sex with him, she'd say no, he'd flip out and call her names, and this would happen periodically, not just once, then he'd be visiting his friends on campus, and I'd ask her to stay in and hang out with me that night, and she'd rather go out and visit him, because she'd feel bad if he was looking forward to seeing her.

She has a need to please complex, which I guess is an earmark of immaturity, so she'd end up doing things like this that would hurt me. I'd explain to her that it was hurting me, nicely, and she never seemed to get the message. Then I'd get angry and probobly condescending and I probobly said some abusive things, not name calling, mostly in the neighborhood of how long before she learns that she's being exploited like this.

Other major problems with the relationship were that she'd lied to me before. About hooking up with a dude before we were dating, her defense was always "what's the big deal, it happened before we were dating?" and my problem wasn't with what she did, it was that she lied to me. Again, she felt like it was none of my business. Yes, when she lied, it was directly to the question did you do X with Y, not lying by omission.

More problems like this, but I'm sure you all get the picture, so we sort of limped along for a while, but it didn't feel like we did, because at the end of the day she made me happy and I made her happy. Maturity and insecurities ate us alive.

Week before thanksgiving she drops the old I need some space to figure things out, I pushed my panic button and played the needy boyfriend, which of course drove her further away. She ends it (over text message, I might add), and over the next 2 weeks I was trying to figure out why. She'd never give me the same answer twice. Amongst them were I wasn't dependable, she never felt good enough for me, and she felt controlled. I sense these are all biproducts of her personal insecurities.

I recently began the NC thing mostly for myself, but partially because I wanted to see how serious she was about this, in the meantime I discovered she'd recently started seeing another guy, which she denied adamantly when I asked before I actually knew. I do NC for a week and she comes at me nagging about picking up my stuff for the 3rd time, and for the 3rd time I told her to throw it away and forget about me, I won't be mad, she refuses to do this, and nags me why I won't talk about what's bothering me. I explain to her that I found out about the other guy, ETC.

This is what she tells me, and I suppose this is subject to interpretation, but I haven't believed anything she's told me from the start of this, and I actually believe her when she says things like this. She said she's dissapointed at how weak she is and didn't have the courage to come clean with a lot of things and she hates how dishonest she is with me and things like that. I explained to her that I still want her back, but she has to get all that sorted out, dishonesty and weakness have no place in a relationship, and if you never sort that out, it's been nice knowing you. She also asked what I was doing with my life, and with other girls, I sort of hammed it up a bit, but I didn't tell her anything that wasn't true. I also left out the part where my life is miserably limping along without her.

Her birthday is coming up, I screwed the pooch on last year's birthday, should I do anything this year? I was thinking a card with just a happy birthday to let her know I'm still thinking about her, but I don't want to come off as desperate and needy. Again. Advice or questions welcome.

[J_9]

Zero,

It is time to just move on. Nothing for her birthday, no contact.

This relationship was doomed at the start.

There is a field of red flags in this post that just screams abusive relationship. Not necessarily physical, but mental and emotional.

Time to learn from what you did wrong here, and to learn what you do and do not want out of a girlfriend and move on to a happier healthier relationship.

[ForeverZero]

What screams abusive? I sort of feel like I was too hard on her a lot, and when I told her that, she told me that I'm not normally like that, and I wouldn't be like that if I wasn't dating a "fixer upper". I don't know how much of that she believes, but what I'm asking is who's doing the abusing? I feel like I was doing my share of it, but I also feel like I was backed into that corner. Is that a blame tactic?

[J_9]

the same fight over and over.

Abusive, verbally or emotionally. Couples who are happy do not have the same fight over and over. They solve the crisis and then move on.

She would do things that made me feel like i wasn't important to her, garden variety example: This dude she was seeing briefly years before we met would try to talk her into having sex with him, she'd say no, he'd flip out and call her names, and this would happen periodically, not just once, then he'd be visiting his friends on campus, and i'd ask her to stay in and hang out with me that night, and she'd rather go out and visit him, because she'd feel bad if he was looking forward to seeing her.

She did not care for your feelings or she still really had feelings for him. Come on, if a gal was committed, would she really do this? Honestly now, don't make excuses for her.

she'd end up doing things like this that would hurt me. I'd explain to her that it was hurting me, nicely, and she never seemed to get the message. Then i'd get angry and probobly condescending and i probobly said some abusive things, not name calling, mostly in the neighborhood of how long before she learns that she's being exploited like this.

She never got the message, probably because she did not want to. This can be considered emotional abuse. If she cared, she would have gotten the message. Here you yourself admitted some sort of emotional or verbal abuse.

Other major problems with the relationship were that she'd lied to me before. About hooking up with a dude before we were dating, her defense was always "what's the big deal, it happened before we were dating?" and my problem wasn't with what she did, it was that she lied to me. Again, she felt like it was none of my business. Yes, when she lied, it was directly to the question did you do X with Y, not lying by omission.

Do you see here how she lied? Lying is not part of a good relationship. I do see her point, it happened before you two were together, so why rehash what happened in the past, nothing you can do to change it, so why not just drop in and go forward.

More problems like this, but i'm sure you all get the picture, so we sorta limped along for a while, but it didn't feel like we did, because at the end of the day she made me happy and i made her happy. Maturity and insecurities ate us alive.

First, you did not "limp" you freaking needed crutches!! Now the rest of this paragraph is SO contradictory!!

You limped, but it did not feel like it... At the end of the day you made each other happy... Maturity and insecurities at you alive.

Now how can you be happy at the end of the day while being eaten alive?

i pushed my panic button and played the needy boyfriend, which of course drove her further away.

Yep, you said it...

Amongst them were i wasn't dependable, she never felt good enough for me, and she felt controlled. I sense these are all biproducts of her personal insecurities.

Her personal insecurities or ones that you imposed on her by confronting her, being needy, continuiously believing she is immature and insecure?

she'd recently started seeing another guy, which she denied adamantly when i asked before i actually knew.

What business is it of yours now anyway? You are broken up right? It is her life right? This is what I call NONEYA, it is NONEYA business what she does while you are broken up.

I do NC for a week and she comes at me nagging about picking up my stuff for the 3rd time, and for the 3rd time i told her to throw it away and forget about me, i won't be mad, she refuses to do this, and nags me why i wont talk about what's bothering me. I explain to her that i found out about the other guy, ETC.

This is not NC. NC is NO CONTACT. No contact means, just that, no e-mails, no texts, no IMs, zip, zero, nada. NOTHING, she does not exist so you cannot contact her, and you ignore all contacts from her.

I explained to her that i still want her back,

Why? Really, think about it. WHY?

Okay, now that I feel like Chuff, here. I think you get my point.

[ForeverZero]

We had the same fight, yes, but we also were trying different solutions. We also fought about different things. I was upset about how she made me feel unimportant to her, and she was mad at how I handle things when I'm upset.

I don't disagree that there was emotional abuse, but the question I'm asking is does it look as though that's in my nature from the start? I hate hurting her feelings, I hate the idea of running her life, and I hate the idea of her thinking I make all her decisions for her. I don't like the idea of dating somebody that only dates me because she thinks she can't find anybody better. I'm not jealous, I let her hang out with guys without me all the time. In fact, 90% of the time she's out, its with other dudes.

I've been researching emotional abuse, and I do fit some of the standards, so I'm very concerned. I've spoken with her on the subject, and she feels like she enables that in me. I've pointed out many times in the relationship that she lets people walk on her, and how I'd like her to stand up for herself, and the counselor I saw about this seemed to feel like I was right for doing so, but I'm also wondering if that itself is controlling behavior. If I created insecurities that weren't there? She wasn't happy with the way a lot of people were treating her, and she'd often come back crying to me about them. So I felt like I was doing something in her best interest. Again, I'm confused.

[ForeverZero]

She didn't really have feelings for that guy that was visiting her, he was in the army and she would have felt bad if he left on a bad note and ended up getting killed in action or something of that sort.

As far as her lying being none of my business, the dude she hooked up with was threatening her and I and cutting himself, maybe I'm selfish, but when my personal wellbeing is at stake, I feel like I need to know what's happening. Her original story was just that he liked her and was getting crazy. The fact that they hooked up made it make sense, again I wasn't interested in rehashing what she'd done with him, I was just upset that she lied to me.

[s_cianci]

RUN, do not walk, from this loser as fast as your legs can carry you! She's everything you've said she is and worse. Why the heck would you even want her back? She'll continue to lie to and manipulate you. Hell, she thinks more of an ex from years ago who gets abusive if she refuses to have sex with him than she does of you! She's no prize worth waiting for. Erase her phone #, e-mail address, screen name, everything. If whatever stuff of yours she has really is worth no more to you than telling her to throw it away, then so be it ; let her deal with it. You don't need to feed in to this kind of drama and nonsense ; it's not healthy.

[s_cianci]

What screams abusive?

Everything, dude! Perhaps you did contribute to it some. After all, abuse tends to beget abuse. When someone abuses us, we tend to abuse them in return ; the old "tit-for-tat" mentality. That's all the more reason for you to stay away from her, so you won't be tempted to behave abusively towards her and possibly set yourself up as the "bad guy." Keep in mind that women tend to get away with abusive behavior more than men, especially because it tends to not be so much physical but more verbal and emotional. Then they try to excuse themselves by blaming it on "hormones" or PMS, etc.

[s_cianci]

I've been researching emotional abuse, and i do fit some of the standards, so i'm very concerned. I've spoken with her on the subject, and she feels like she enables that in me. I've pointed out many times in the relationship that she lets people walk on her, and how i'd like her to stand up for herself, and the councellor i saw about this seemed to feel like i was right for doing so, but i'm also wondering if that itself is controlling behavior. If i created insecurities that weren't there? She wasn't happy with the way a lot of people were treating her, and she'd often come back crying to me about them. So i felt like i was doing something in her best interest. Again, i'm confused.

It's possible that you have some abusive tendencies independently of her. A good question to start with would be something like how did you behave in previous relationships? If you behaved in manners akin to what you've done in this relationship, then it's possible that you may have some of your own abuse issues to work on. If so, then you need to work on that and you should share your concerns with the counselor you're seeing so that (s)he can address this. Remember, you can't fix anyone else but you can fix yourself.

[ForeverZero]

I don't really want her back in her current state. I'm also not putting my life on hold for her, I'm seeing other people and encouraging her to see other people. Unfortunately for me she's seeing a real loser, which is taking its toll on myself esteem, but if she's going to better herself seeing guys like this is the best thing that can happen to me. I'm not really prying into her life, people tell me what's going on, even after I've made it clear I don't want to know. Right now I feel like if she would see how much work she is, she could learn appreciate what I do for her. But I can't handle her garbage like I used to. I'm also told there's an almost certainty she'll be back at some point, which is sort of scaring me. I'm strong when I'm left alone for a while, but when she tries to pry into my life I break down.

[J_9]

i'm seeing other people and encouraging her to see other people. I'm not really prying into her life, people tell me whats going on, even after i've made it clear i don't want to know.

To me that is prying. Do you understand NO CONTACT?

If you don't want to know, tell those people that you don't want to hear it when they start.

[ForeverZero]

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say I'm still interested in hearing it, and I can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

[Infatious]

Forever, I think you are handling this situation pretty well considering how badly most people would do. The fact that she has admitted to the ways she was hurting you and all of that... I have been in a similar situation, but I wouldn't have been able to be that honest.

The fact that she is with a loser, I would say, stems to how low she is feeling... maybe she is feeling like she doesn't deserve better right now, and he is her rebound... a loser one, but its still a rebound. I don't really have any good advice right now, I am personally emotionally overwhelmed right now, but I just wanted to give you props for being so mature in all this. I think you have the right mind set to be able to handle this with your own judgement...

Good Luck

[ForeverZero]

It sort of helps me to think about what a relationship is to me. Personally, I feel in a relationship I have 2 jobs, to make her feel needed, and to make her feel loved. I needed her and I loved her. Maybe not in the right way, but that's not for me to decide.

[J_9]

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say i'm still interested in hearing it, and i can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

Honestly I did not realize that there was an introductory stage of no contact. This is new to me.

No contact is no contact, you just don't slowly get to that point. You just stop contact.

[ForeverZero]

How many people quit smoking their first try?

[J_9]

Not many, I know only a handful.

But No Contact is much easier, believe me I have done it and am currently going through it.

Albeit not with a girlfriend or boyfriend, but a VERY close friend of over a year. It was a VERY unhealthy and abusive relationship. I chose to get better, therefore No Contact.

There is a difference though. Smoking is a physical addiction.

If the relationship is an addiction there are more problems going on.

[Geoffersonairplane]

Hi foreverZero,

Sorry about what you are going through. I know it is tough, I really do. I usually expand on what others say but I read through the responses you had which have all been very good and I particularly liked J9's response which is #4 and in my opinion was spot on given all the facts.

I would suggest you re-read this particular response and really think hard about it. Sometimes, what we are told is not what we want to hear, yet it can help us to make sense of things.

So I won't expand here because I think J9 hit the nail on the head. I will keep an eye on your thread in case I feel I can add something more.

All the best and Happy New Year to you!

Oh Hang on a minute... I thought of something, the birthday card you mentioned you were going to send her. Forget it, full no contact is what is needed and for you to work on yourself and move on. She won't appreciate the card in the way you want her to.. Again it will make you look needy and actually she might feel a bit harassed in a way. I know you are not like that but see it from her point of view. I never sent anything to my ex over xmas, and I am glad because of What I have said here. You must let go! In time, it will make more sense.

[talaniman]

What you have is one unhealthy relationship between two people that have no clue as to what they want or how to get it. You both enable each other in negative ways and maybe you both should leave each other alone. No contact is what you need and until you do it you both will continue to suffer and be miserable. Make all the excuses you want but this abusive relationship must stop.

[ForeverZero]

I'm in 100% agreement, but the problem I run into, which I'm sure is the one everybody runs into, is what would the relationship look like without the abuse? Given what she's told me so far, we're both on the same page as far as the mutual enabling of the abuse.

Looking at myself, I can honestly say I've never been like this before, and the abusive things I've said and done have been in the wrong mindset. I've tried to keep her away from her friends sometimes, but that's the intent of her finding friends that don't make her cry every time they see her, not making her have friends that approve of me, as I find is the case in most abusive relationships.

I'm not making the mistake of basing my life on waiting for her to come around, but I also am inclined to trust my judgement, as this has more or less unfolded the way I figured it would. My judgement tells me that in time she'll realize why this went wrong, and understand that she's not the kind of person to hurt me, as I'm not the kind of person to hurt her.

As far as no contact goes, I've asked her to stay out of my life. She initiated the breakup, so I feel an obligation to listen to what she has to say to learn about myself. I also figure if she's going to disregard my wishes, it should be important to her. I doubt she'll have anything to say for a while anyway.