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CoruptedAngel · May 8, 2012, 09:08 PM

Now I am not even thinking about suicide but I need a question answered.

I have an Aunt and Great Grandfather commit suicide and my mom has attempted twice. After the second time though she woke up and asked her self what she was doing? She will not attempt again. Anyway I'm getting off subject...

I am a Christian and I know I have been taught that if you take your own life you go to hell. One of the reasons is because you can not ask for forgiveness if you are dead. But my question is if before taking your life you say and ask "God please forgive me for what I am about to do?" If you are forgiven and get to go to heaven on judgement day?

babygirlreagor · May 8, 2012, 09:28 PM

I assume not because there are some sins that god do not forgive and suicide is one of them.its bad for someone else not to care about your life but even worse when you yourself hates your inner soul. Life is a gift and suicide is like throwing that gift back in gods face and telling him its worthless.

Wondergirl · May 8, 2012, 09:35 PM

I too am a Christian and do not believe a suicide goes to hell (if there even is one). The majority of the time, the person who commits suicide is tightly wrapped up in drug use, alcoholism, mental illness, or other psychological problems that have changed who he is inside and how he thinks.

I believe God looks into a person's heart and goes from there.

CoruptedAngel · May 9, 2012, 02:12 AM

That's what I believe too Wondergirl. In my thinking no one in their right mind would want to take their life. How can they be blamed for taking their life if they are not in their right mind. Depression,drugs etc. You are not the person whom God intended you to be.

hauntinghelper · May 9, 2012, 03:28 AM

Saying one goes to Hell after suicide is simply a statement that is said too strongly. Yes, there is reason to believe that but in the end we do not know. I know God is loving and merciful and there are some issues we simply need to leave in His hands. We don't know everything, we can't know everything and we never will know everything... some things belong to Him and him alone and suicide and the afterlife are one of them.

CoruptedAngel · May 9, 2012, 03:47 AM

Well said. Thank You and God bless :)

dwashbur · May 9, 2012, 07:13 AM

It's called grace. Jesus died and rose for ALL of my sins, past, present and future. Confessing my sins doesn't re-save me, it restores my earthly friendship with God. He doesn't cast me away every time I grumble a curse against my goofy neighbor downstairs; Jesus paid for that. God doesn't like it, and wants me to confess, but it has nothing to do with my eternal standing with Him. The teaching that calls suicide unforgivable is based on the idea that we're saved by grace, but kept by works. It doesn't work that way. Saved by grace, and kept by grace. I couldn't do anything to merit salvation in the first place, it's all by grace. Paul hammers away at this in Ephesians 2, and too many people still don't get it. The ONLY sin that sends anybody to hell is unbelief, i.e. not trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection to give me new life and make me a new person. Everything else has already been dealt with at the cross.

classyT · May 9, 2012, 12:04 PM

I agree with dwashbur. I will go a step further... I don't even believe we have to confess our sins. They are forgiven never to be remembered anymore. When I screw up, I talk to the Lord about it.. but it is NOT a requirement for my salvation. I don't even ask him to forgive me. HE DID, HE HAS. The Lord Jesus wants us to be Christ conscience.. not sin conscience.

I know what 1 John says... but many believe the 1 chapter was NOT written to the CHURCH... get to the 2nd chapter and John begins his letter to the Church because he uses the term... little children. If you read up on it there was a group of people who were denying that Jesus Christ was not her in the flesh, it was a spiritual... kind of new age thinking. If you read 1 John with that in mind... it makes since. In any event, Jesus paid for me sins or he didn't. And if we have to confess every sin... I am in a boat load of trouble because I can't even remember them all. We either take that verse literally or not for us. Don't see any other way around it.

Athos · May 9, 2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by dwashbur

Jesus died and rose for ALL of my sins, past, present and future........... The ONLY sin that sends anybody to hell is unbelief,.

How do you reconcile these two statements?

classyT · May 9, 2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

How do you reconcile these two statements?

Athos,

I know Dave can speak for himself. But I will take a crack at answering your question, as I KNOW how you value my thoughts. :D

Once someone becomes a believer in Christ, confesses with his mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believes in his heart God raised him from the dead they are saved. All their sins were put on Jesus at the cross. There is a spiritual swap. Jesus took all their sins and punishment for them,and they get all of his righteousness. The only thing that sends anyone to hell is NOT believing and rejecting Jesus and his finished work.

dwashbur · May 9, 2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Athos,

I know Dave can speak for himself. But I will take a crack at answering your question, as i KNOW how you value my thoughts. :D

Once someone becomes a believer in Christ, confesses with his mouth the Lord Jesus Christ and believes in his heart God raised him from the dead they are saved. All their sins were put on Jesus at the cross. There is a spiritual swap. Jesus took all their sins and punishment for them,and they get all of his righteousness. The only thing that sends anyone to hell is NOT beleiving and rejecting Jesus and his finished work.

Couldn't have said it better myself. The forgiveness I mentioned is there and available to anybody who accepts it. But like any gift, it's not yours until you take it. That's what unbelief does: it rejects the gift. That's why it's the only thing that sends anyone to hell. I hope this answers your question; if not, feel free to expand and I'll be happy to keep trying.

Athos · May 9, 2012, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by dwashbur

Couldn't have said it better myself. The forgiveness I mentioned is there and available to anybody who accepts it. But like any gift, it's not yours until you take it. That's what unbelief does: it rejects the gift. That's why it's the only thing that sends anyone to hell. I hope this answers your question; if not, feel free to expand and I'll be happy to keep trying.

I don't think my question has been understood. I'll try again.

Statement one says ALL sins are forgiven. Statement two contradicts this by saying there is a sin that is NOT forgiven (hence, not ALL are forgiven). Both statements can't be true.

classyT · May 9, 2012, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

I don't think my question has been understood. I'll try again.

Statement one says ALL sins are forgiven. Statement two contradicts this by saying there is a sin that is NOT forgiven (hence, not ALL are forgiven). Both statements can't be true.

Statement one was used when Dave spoke of himself personally. Statement two was a general statement about anyone. So both statements CAN be true... and you thought me a dippy blonde... tsk tsk.

Wondergirl · May 9, 2012, 08:02 PM

Matt.12:31,32 KJV: Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

"Then he says again: As the Savior converses with those not yet able to receive what is perfect, condescending to their littleness, while the Holy Spirit communes with the perfected, and yet we could never say on that account that the teaching of the Spirit is superior to the teaching of the Son, but only that the Son condescends to the imperfect, while the Spirit is the seal of the perfected; even so it is not on account of the superiority of the Spirit over the Son that the blasphemy against the Spirit is a sin excluding impunity and pardon, but because for the imperfect there is the pardon, while for those who have tasted the heavenly gift, and been made perfect, there remains no plea or prayer for pardon." Ancient Church Father Theognostus of Alexandria, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Hypotyposes, pg 156, 6.3

dwashbur · May 9, 2012, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

I don't think my question has been understood. I'll try again.

Statement one says ALL sins are forgiven. Statement two contradicts this by saying there is a sin that is NOT forgiven (hence, not ALL are forgiven). Both statements can't be true.

The dippy blonde ;) said it pretty well. In statement one I was talking about MY sins, and by extension, the sins of anyone who accepts the free gift of salvation/forgiveness. Statement two pretty well denotes the obvious: there are those who don't accept it. That sin isn't forgiven. I hope that clears it up.

Athos · May 10, 2012, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by dwashbur

The dippy blonde ;) said it pretty well. In statement one I was talking about MY sins, and by extension, the sins of anyone who accepts the free gift of salvation/forgiveness. Statement two pretty well denotes the obvious: there are those who don't accept it. That sin isn't forgiven. I hope that clears it up.

If the first explanation doesn't work, then try another?? I thought my original comment/question couldn't have been simpler, but, judging by the responses, I was wrong about that. And, the Matthew reference wasn't even close to my question.

In any case, no need to belabor this. I thank you all for the replies and your attempts to clarify.

classyT · May 10, 2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

If the first explanation doesn't work, then try another??? I thought my original comment/question couldn't have been simpler, but, judging by the responses, I was wrong about that. And, the Matthew reference wasn't even close to my question.

In any case, no need to belabor this. I thank you all for the replies and your attempts to clarify.

Athos,

Perhaps you just didn't like the answer. Maybe you thought you tripped us/Dave up somehow. Bummer. Oh I know, I know... I'm going to get another reddie for this post. That's OK... it keeps me humble. :D

mysticman72 · May 12, 2012, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by CoruptedAngel

Now I am not even thinking about suicide but I need a question answered.

I have an Aunt and Great Grandfather commit suicide and my mom has attempted twice. After the second time though she woke up and asked her self what she was doing? She will not attempt again. Anyway I'm getting off subject...

I am a Christian and I know I have been taught that if you take your own life you go to hell. One of the reasons is because you can not ask for forgiveness if you are dead. But my question is if before taking your life you say and ask "God please forgive me for what I am about to do?" If you are forgiven and get to go to heaven on judgement day?

CA,

Asking for forgiveness before you do something, knowing that what you are going to do is wrong, has the wrong intent and invalidates your request. Forgiveness implies something that you already did, are repentant for, and do not seek to do again. That's not really possible in your explained scenario above.

For the record, my experience with suicides is that immediately after death they have to meet the Father. What happens after that is between the Father and that person as to what their final destination will be.

Peace...

mysticman72 · May 12, 2012, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by CoruptedAngel

That's what I believe too Wondergirl. In my thinking no one in their right mind would want to take their life. How can they be blamed for taking their life if they are not in their right mind. Depression,drugs etc. You are not the person whom God intended you to be.

Unless there is a severe mental incompetence, we are all responsible for our actions. I've seen many situations like this and I understand how life can be, but regardless of the circumstances, suicide is a "sinful" act. It is the refusal to live the life that you were entrusted with and that refusal is a very grave and serious matter.

Peace...

Fr_Chuck · May 12, 2012, 08:13 AM

I remember Jesus asking the Father to forgive the people for putting him to death while he was on the cross, something along the lines of forgive them, they know not what they do. Then of course we see just not knowing something is wrong, does not mean you don't have to be forgiven, the excuse you don't know it is wrong, does not make it right, so people who do things they think is right but it is not, still need forgiveness.

1. so failure to know it is wrong does not take away need for forgivenss

Jesus taught his follows how to pray, in what we call the Lords prayer, We ask God to forgive our sins, and it appears this is to be prayed often, if we are forgiven of all future sins when we became a Christian, why did Christ teach us to ask for forgiveness in our regular prayers ? He would have merely said, thank you for already having forgiven me, not forgive me my sins.

It is obvious at least to me, that forgiveness is not a one time only event, but we have to ask forgiveness all the time for our sins.

2. we have a need to ask forgiveness.