[Kahani Punjab]

This is a very piquent query. My friend Jacob (not his original name) wrote a story, VALUE, which was published in a prominent Punjabi literary magazine, but in the next issue, there was an objection published, in which someone pointed out that a story of almost-same plot has already been published by some other writer. When I read it, I was shell-shocked and went ahead to read that story too, which was written by someone else, and then read VALUE too again, and found great similarities, amid both of the stories, not in the way of presentation but as the plot moves ahead and as is the crux. Now, when I told my friend about it, he was also surprised and asked me to state the story verbatim, on phone, and got so upset and shocked that he asked me to give him that story. I gave it to him, and he re-read it and called me again to express his surprise. Now, I know that he had never read this story, and has already written a lot many famous stories and is quite a name in Punjabi literature. However, why this story of his has attracted blame? He himself fails to make out the reason? Can two writers writing in different times in two different areas of same state/province and in same language write same stories (almost, of same plot) without even reading story of each other. The former writer is dead. I would request the posters to give their opinions, shying away from the suggestion that he might have read it earlier or might have heard it from someone i.e. the story written by former writer. This point is comprehensible, but I want the answer (psychologically or otherwise) if it is possible. I have put this question on this international sight as readers of all cultures and languages surf it and can give me more insight. I am asked by the literary magazine to write in-depth analysis on this topic. I am a literary analyst and critic with psychological bent.

I know most of the plays of William Shakespeare are based on tales already in folk memory, but this story is not having any folk-element.

[Wondergirl]

Yes, it is possible.

My son was 14 and wrote a story for English class. The teacher scolded him for plagiarizing a story idea by a famous American author. My son did not read any literature at all (a big bone of contention in our house full of readers!) and would never have read anything by that particular author.

Consider all the flood stories that were composed by various countries -- http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html -- that may or may not have been based on one or more historical events.

[Fr_Chuck]

I remember in college, we did an entire semester just doing the comparison of Romeo and Juliet and West Side Story. Story lines close, just different locations and times.

[Kahani Punjab]

Yes, it is possible.

My son was 14 and wrote a story for English class. The teacher scolded him for plagiarizing a story idea by a famous American author. My son did not read any literature at all (a big bone of contention in our house full of readers!) and would never have read anything by that particular author.

Really! I am grateful, and to Fr_Chuck too, for the reply.

But, what can be the reason behind it? Do human minds are wires similarly that they think in the same way? Or anything else... now that magazine has laid allegation of plagiarism over my friend and I have to stand by him and I am desirous of writing a scholarly piece which would help him absolve out of this mess. Now, what justifications can I write in his favour to support his side? Kindly, kindly, kindly write your views.

[rpray2007]

There is much discussion about the concept of memes and the notion that ideas have a way of transferring between people similar to viruses. For example, the original discussion of differential calculus was done almost in parallel by both Isaac Newton (England) and Leibniz (Germany). Both mathematicians contend that they came up with very similar concepts independently. However, the coincidence of time makes it suspect. But, giving them the benefit of the doubt, meme theory suggests that the time was "ripe" for the concept of differential equations and calculus and both scientists were appropriately receptive to the meme and hence independently "invented' it. I am, of course, oversimplifying and must confess only superficial knowledge of meme theory.

There are several other anecdotes that convey the same concept that different people happen upon the same concept without an explicit transfer of information or knowledge. As a starter you might want to read the Wikipedia article about memes: Meme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Wondergirl]

Here's a discussion --

Writing a novel and then realize another book has a similar plot? - Absolute Write Water Cooler

[Kahani Punjab]

There is much discussion about the concept of memes and the notion that ideas have a way of transferring between people similar to viruses..................of course, oversimplifying and must confess only superficial knowledge of meme theory.

There are several other anecdotes that convey the same concept that different people happen upon the same concept without an explicit transfer of information or knowledge. As a starter you might want to read the Wikipedia article about memes: Meme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am so so so grateful to you for the link and for the insight you provided and I am sure this will greatly help me answering the critics, who have gone to the extent of calling him a copier. Thanks again... you have got a greenie for the service... and if you can help further... you are free... thanks again!

[Wondergirl]

Infinite monkey theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[rpray2007]

Infinite monkey theorem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not sure if you are suggesting that meme theory is akin to infinite monkey theory - because it is not in any way. And I don't believe the IMT is relevant in this context.

Meme theory attempts to address the etymology of ideas and disagrees that random events resulted in two people having the same idea. Rather it attempts to trace the origin of the idea to other ideas and so on and formulates a "perfect storm" for the resulting new idea. In other words, it was going to happen and it was simply the "necessary victim" who would carry the meme forward.

So in KP's (the OP's) situation, both the known author and her friend were infected by the same meme based on exposure to previous memes that were more commonly shared. This "next" evolutionary step for this meme is the one they both expressed and is what they independently wrote.

[Wondergirl]

Not sure if you are suggesting that meme theory is akin to infinite monkey theory - because it is not in any way. And I don't believe the IMT is relevant in this context.

No, I wasn't suggesting they are the same, but wanted to give her something to confuse the Punjabis with.

Romance novels are proof positive there is nothing new under the sun.

[Kahani Punjab]

Let me tell you what happens in both the stories, which is the backbone of the plot, and this is what we can also term as similarities in both stories -

1. A man has large amount of money, which he has to take home. (In first story, he has sold a tractor, while in other he has to buy a tractor, but as the one is not available, he has to take the money back.)

2. Some persons start following the protagonist. He feels helpless when he boards the bus, he realises the persons are still in the bus and after him. He thinks of way out but in vain.

3. He meets the driver, when the bus stops for a while and the latter suggest him to get off the bus, at a particular bus-stop, only when all the passengers (who have to get down there) are off, in the end, when he will speed up the bus, so that if his 'followers' want to get down, they would be off the bus, but will be very far from him.

4. Shockingly, in both the stories, the protagonist goes to his would-be in-laws, where one of his brothers-in-law makes up mind to 'kill' him to take the money, as money creates greed in his mind.

5. But, incidentally, he is off to somewhere, and his another brother-in-law is there in that place, and gets killed.

Now, there are so great similarities, that you will also say that my friend COPIED that story, but believe me he has not even read the first one. Still, if you insist, I would say - okay - but give the replies by keeping this already-read point off-mind. Is it not a very interesting point?

[Kahani Punjab]

Hi members and the 'readers' of the site, I have put up certain points, which indicate the similarities between two of the stories, written by two different writers, both of repute, one of them dead, and both story-writers have/had not read the one written by the other. Still, so much similarity! I am failing to make out the reason behind so much identical points, esp. the plot being almost same. There are views given by Fr_Chuck and Wondergirl, and I am grateful to them and have vented my gratitude to both of them and even given them greenies, but now when I have put up some fresh data, I have failed to received any attention or reaction. I shall again plead before you to kindly go through it and react. Thanks again, in advance. Your questions are also welcome and so is the criticism, if any.

[Wondergirl]

You mentioned the similarities. Are there any differences? And are there enough to counterbalance the similarities?

(P.S. The Writing category is not a sought-after one by members, thus no new responses.)

[joypulv]

Strangely enough I think I have encountered this story line right here on this site, over a year ago, in the context of something totally different (relationships, I think, and matters of trust). Plus I think the writer was from India. I remember someone getting on a bus, and I remember a large amount of money, and there was a moral to the tale. In fact it led me to believe that it was a common ethical dilemma tale in India.

[Eileen G]

Two things spring to mind.

As a journalist, I often find that at certain times of the year, we get lots of freelance writers approaching us with the same or similar ideas. And more often than not, this idea has already occurred to one of the editors and a staff reporter is already working on that idea. I'm certain that there are freelancers who are convinced that the paper stole their idea. No, it's just that the same event prompted the idea in everyone.

Another possibility is that with television, films and the internet always on the go, there is always the possibility that someone somewhere read the original story and mentioned the bones of the plot to someone else, who later used it for a story. There are only a handful of basic plots, everything is about how you handle the plot.

[BonnieLee1969]

Yes, that sometimes does happen though neither author have ever met.