[flyboy18]

I was told that I wouldn't be subjected to EtG or PEth tests, but I am curious and always cautious... after multiple weeks of not drinking (I just don't drink), I had ~4 Coors Light 12oz bottles of beer on a Thursday night.

At 4.2% EtOH, I calculated this to be about 50g of alcohol, or about 3.6 standard drinks. I'm a male, approximately 160-170lbs... so somewhere around 75kg.

Would this ever show up as a positive PEth test let's say... 5-6 days later? Cutoff would probably be 20ng/ml.

The wording on a lot of the descriptions of the PEth test is fuzzy. "7 drinks in a week" or whatever... you'd have to know the rate of consumption vs the rate of elimination and with that information only, 2 drinks in one day could make it positive since there was little or no elimination time.

There's a new article that would show that even ~50g or so of ethanol will cause a positive PEth for several days.

Formation of Phosphatidylethanol and Its Subsequent Elimination During an Extensive Drinking Experiment Over 5 Days.

Gnann H, Weinmann W, Thierauf A.

PMID: 22458353

[DrBill100]

First, thanks for bringing the aforementioned to my attention.

Second, I agree that the information on PEth is vague.

I quickly reviewed the abstract (often misleading) for the study you cited and find it confusing in view of my current knowledge. I don't subscribe to the particular publication and can't gain access to full text. I will see if there is a mirror in any of my subscriptions.

Since PEth hasn't been widely used in US I may have slipped behind the curve.

Therefore, I will defer a specific response to your question until I can more thoroughly review this test and how it is being utilized.

I can say, based on current knowledge, a singular (bolus) consumption of two-drinks (US) ~50g, should not create detectable levels of PEth across any period.

I am very familiar with the research of both Wolf Weinmann and Ann Thierauf and can get an answer one way or another.

Please allow me a little time to provide a more direct answer to your question. Very interesting...

[flyboy18]

Dr. Bill,

I have full access to pubmed and all of the sources therein - I have uploaded the PDF for you.

>.pdf file removed<

I will keep the link up until you confirm that you've downloaded it.

[DrBill100]

Dr. Bill,

I have full access to pubmed and all of the sources therein - I have uploaded the PDF for you.

PEth study.pdf download - 2shared

I will keep the link up until you confirm that you've downloaded it.

I tried. Get a warning of possible damage and flashing picture of a young lady's rump.

Please provide the study as an attachment. Will review immediately.

I have been reviewing the studies since your initial inquiry and anxious to get the info.

Thanks.

[flyboy18]

It seems like the LC-MS/MS test is more sensitive than its predecessor, Gnann, 2009 and it can detect lower than 20 ng/mL but the cutoffs used at labs is still 20 ng/mL regardless of which analysis method is used.

[DrBill100]

It seems like the LC-MS/MS test is more sensitive than its predecessor, Gnann, 2009 and it can detect lower than 20 ng/mL but the cutoffs used at labs is still 20 ng/mL regardless of which analysis method is used.

I have the initial study you referenced and in comparing authors turned up the Gnann, 2009, referenced above. I'm thus far impressed with the particulars but, once again, see wide variability among few subjects (n=11). That has been the problem with EtG and EtS, the previous "gold standards" of bio-markers...

I am far less concerned with the sensitivity of testing (instrumental) than with the interpretation of what is detected. Many of the authors of the PEth testing have been deeply involved in EtG and EtS research (ex: Wurst, Weinmann, Thierauf, Helander, Auwater, Pragst, etc.) The vast majority of that research has been scientifically dismantled.

Now we see the emergence of yet another bio-marker, a specific metabolite of EtOH, advanced, and too often marketed by, the same usual suspects. Requires close scrutiny.

I really appreciate your question. I will further review the study presented within the context of previous research. Hope you will give me through tomorrow to check the various references. This is of great interest to me and you may be assured of my continuing attention.