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    Dakkel's Avatar
    Dakkel Posts: 6, Reputation: -1
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    #1

    Feb 4, 2012, 09:10 AM
    Failed prophesy of Jesus
    In Matt. 16:28 Jesus said, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Yet, they all died and he never came.

    Now the prophesies said that the Savior was going to be the King of the Jews but Jesus died, never becoming the King. How come no one prophetised that the "kingdom" Was spiritual as some Christians suggest. What implications this have as prophets said the messiah will reign over the LAND not the heaven.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #2

    Feb 4, 2012, 09:31 AM
    1. Refer to Luke 17:21 concerning the Kingdom of God being spiritual. Romans 14:17 is also very clear on this as is John 18:36.
    2. Refer to Acts 1:3 concerning your supposedly failed prophecy. I assure you that it has not failed. His kingdom did arrive and has been the most powerful and influential kingdom in the history of the world. We are speaking of course of the Christian faith. Paul understood this quite well, so much so that, "... he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered." (Refer to Acts 28:30.)

    God is not after things. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. He is after the hearts of men and women such as you.

    I might add the Old Testament is in agreement with this. Refer here to Jeremiah 31: 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,"They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,"for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

    Note that this new covenant is entirely about man on the inside, not land or conquest of lands. It is about the conquest of man's heart.
    Dakkel's Avatar
    Dakkel Posts: 6, Reputation: -1
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    #3

    Feb 4, 2012, 10:17 AM
    Well then you refer to a philosophical kingdom. Now the spiritual kingdom was never mentioned I the old testaments and the prophesies of the old prophets, why God omit such details and gave false hope to his people?
    450donn's Avatar
    450donn Posts: 1,821, Reputation: 239
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    #4

    Feb 4, 2012, 11:54 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkel View Post
    well then you refer to a philosophical kingdom. Now the spiritual kingdom was never mentioned i the old testaments and the prophesies of the old prophets, why God omit such details and gave false hope to his people?
    Where are you getting these talking points?
    It is helpful it you will cite chapter and verse when you make outlandish claims about what was supposedly said and by who. So far you have not made any points or suggestions, only outlandish claims. Either you do or do not believe the Bible.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #5

    Feb 5, 2012, 11:28 AM
    There is a difference between a philosophical kingdom and a spiritual one. This Kingdom of Christ is very real.

    "...why God omit such details and gave false hope to his people?" Which scriptures are you referring to? Also, have you read the final part of the book of Revelation?
    Dakkel's Avatar
    Dakkel Posts: 6, Reputation: -1
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    #6

    Feb 5, 2012, 02:40 PM
    To his people I refer to the Jews who for always believed the messiah will be a worldly king as stated in various prophesies of the old testament, why is the spiritual mentioned in the new testament? Why is it that you get many of your facts from Paul and not Jesus himself. And can we count the resurrection as the second coming?
    And
    "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
    Well surelly It seems that this is not the time for you are still telling me to "Know the Lord".
    Dakkel's Avatar
    Dakkel Posts: 6, Reputation: -1
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    #7

    Feb 5, 2012, 02:42 PM
    Why Siddhartha Gautama, AKA the Buddha had a very similar message to Christ, is it possible that God manifest himself according to culture? Or Jesus learned about the teachings of the Buddha since he was before Jesus?
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 5,019, Reputation: 157
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    #8

    Feb 5, 2012, 09:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkel View Post
    Why is it that you get many of your facts from Paul and not Jesus himself. And can we count the resurrection as the second coming?and "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
    Well surelly It seems that this is not the time for you are still telling me to "Know the Lord".
    1. Two of my quotes, Luke and John, are from Jesus.
    2. I did not tell you to "Know the Lord". You need to learn to read a post carefully and thoughtfully, not merely looking to argue.
    3. While I did not tell you to "Know the Lord", I would ask if you if you do know Him. And if you don't, then it might be because you have referred to him as a false prophet by suggesting His prophecy failed, which it clearly did not do.
    4. This is not a game we are playing. You, as well as everyone else, must decide if the Bible is true. I have accepted it for very specific and defensible reasons.
    5. Did Buddha claim to be the Son of God, come to earth to bear the penalty for the sins of all mankind, and to open up the door to redemption and forgiveness to all who put their faith in him? I don't believe Buddha made such claims for himself, and therefore did not have a message at all like Christ. Many have come claiming to represent and speak for God. Only Jesus claimed to be God.
    6. I asked you for the scriptures you were referring to. You did not list any. Why?
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #9

    Feb 21, 2012, 01:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkel View Post
    In Matt. 16:28 Jesus said, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Yet, they all died and he never came.

    Now the prophesies said that the Savior was going to be the King of the Jews but Jesus died, never becoming the King. How come no one prophetised that the "kingdom" Was spiritual as some Christians suggest. What implications this have as prophets said the messiah will reign over the LAND not the heaven.
    A wrong view, Christ came into his kindgom three days after his death. He will return to the Earth but until then he reigns at his father's right hand
    samdarwen's Avatar
    samdarwen Posts: 68, Reputation: 2
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    #10

    Mar 16, 2012, 04:40 PM
    That is funny and you know why?
    Because no one yet to know if they actually all died, no one can actually tell, so how the prophecy failed when we do not have the whole picture? Also this is what some called faith, not looking into things to discredit a prophecy; if you believe then you do and if not then I wish you the best in your life but I doubt anyone to claim knowing the whole truth or having the whole picture….. Also; why is it not that he was talking about a bloodline; or someone’s soul, belief, or even an idea? How is it we translate things our ways… By the way; have you ever tried to read the bible in Aramaic? Some things are different than what most of us knows; maybe it is even easier than what we all think….
    Have faith and things will be easier to understand

    Peace

    Sam
    JoeT777's Avatar
    JoeT777 Posts: 1,248, Reputation: 44
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    #11

    Apr 18, 2012, 09:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakkel View Post
    In Matt. 16:28 Jesus said, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Yet, they all died and he never came.
    St. Ambrose teaches that Christ and His Kingdom are not separated. St. Paul says that "Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member." [1 Corinthians 12:27]. That is to say the faithful are 'The Mystical Body of Christ' which is 'The Kingdom of Heaven'. So we have to ask, when Christ said, "The Kingdom of God is come nigh unto you"? What did he mean saying that this generation would not pass? (Cf. Matthew 12:28, Luke 10:9, Luke 17:21, Luke 21:31). Was the shinning Kingdom placed under a basket?

    St. Luke's Gospel we read that the Kingdom of God was 'among them':

    And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
    Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you. [Luke 17:20-22]

    And so it was, both Christ and the Twelve was of the Jewish Nation, thus among the Pharisees, Those who stood before Christ in Matthew's Gospel were the Kingdom of God. This is a universal Kingdom, i.e. Church that will be comprised of the faithful on earth, the Church Militant, those suffering in purgatory, the Church suffering, and finally, those in heaven the Church Triumphant.

    To begin with, learn, from further testimonies [of Scripture], how that the kingdom of heaven is also the kingdom of the Son: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that there are some among those which stand here with us, who shall not taste death, until they see the Son of Man coming into His kingdom." (Matthew 16:28) There is therefore no room for doubt that the kingdom appertains to the Son of God. (Ambrose, Christian Faith, III, 12)

    Prophesies said that the Savior was going to be the King of the Jews but Jesus died, never becoming the King. How come no one prophesied that the "kingdom" Was spiritual as some Christians suggest. What implications this have as prophets said the messiah will reign over the LAND not the heaven.
    The Old Testament tells of the coming of the Kingdom in the Messianic age. The Kingdom is meant for the sanctification of the twelve tribes as well as the Gentiles, represented in The Twelve. Even kings serve and obey (Psalm 21:28 sq.; 2:7-12; 116:1; Zechariah 9:10). It’s clear that a Catholic (universal) faith and common worship is implied, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be prepared in the top of the mountains, and high above the hills: and people shall flow to it. And many nations shall come in haste, and say: Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob: and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth out of Sion, and the word of the Lord out of Jerusalem.” (Micah 4:1-2) A unified worship, ONE worship under a teaching authority, keeping the Divine Truth for all; “And it shall come to pass in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem: half of them to the east sea, and half of them to the last sea: they shall be in summer and in winter. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day there shall be one Lord, and his name shall be one. “(Zechariah 14:8)

    Prophecies in the Old Testament tell of a future Kingdom holding the authority in the rule of the Messiah; Psalms 2 and 71; Isaiah 9:6 sq. We see that authority in the shepherd that leads his sheep between in the pastures of Divine Truth (Ezekiel 34:23; 37:24-28).

    Taking the seat of Moses, Christ is the High Priest of the Kingdom of God, “The Lord hath sworn, and he will not repent: Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech.” (Psalm 109:4) And that priesthood is institutionalized in the Kingdom, “For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 1:11). The priesthood in this Messianic Kingdom is a continuation of the priesthood in the Old Testament with continued sacrificial offerings; “Thus saith the Lord: if my covenant, with the day can be made void, and my covenant with the night, that there should not be day and night in their season" (Jeremiah 33:20)

    We take God’s Word as being immutable. God promises Moses a Kingdom; nowhere do we find a verse that terminates the Kingdom of God. Moses is told, “If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth is mine. And you shall be to me a priestly kingdom, and a holy nation.” (Ex.19: 5, 6), which is the Old Testament equivalent of Matt 16:18. The promise made to Moses is an integral part of the Old Testament. The Jewish Kingdom was both a spiritual and temporal Kingdom of God with a priestly hierarchy, where the presence of God was veiled and only found in the Tabernacle. Mosses’ sacrifices, different from the Christ’s sacrifice, was given up to be consumed by God. Conversely Christ is sacrificed at the altar continually every day consuming us, bite by bite. (Cf. Tractates on the Gospel of John, CHAPTER 26,) newadvent.org/fathers/1701026.htm

    The Kingdom was near as promised in Luke and Matthew and is eternal. You call it the Catholic Church. The Church of God is still within us; a beacon atop a hill.

    Christ didn’t overturn this Kingdom by creating a new one; in fact He couldn’t because His ministry was the fulfillment of the Old Covenant, which included the Messianic Kingdom along with the prophecies of His Kingdom. To overthrow this Kingdom would have been to overthrow himself – which of course is nonsense. However what Christ was to do was to turn over the ‘Key’ of the Kingdom to a new tenant, what is today the gentile Kingdom we call the Catholic Church. Which is the reason that in Matthew, we hear Christ say, “I say to you [the Pharisees] that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.” This too is a pronouncement on Mt. Sinai. It’s here we see Christ conquering the world in the Messianic vision of David; but instead of today’s “nation building” it is called Christ’s “Kingdom” building.

    JoeT

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