[DenverJack]

A friend drank 16 beers Thursday, takes lasics daily and wants to know if he will pass ETG today at 7:30pm?

[DenverJack]

By the way, Drank Thursday night until around 2 am. Test tonight Tuesday at 7:30 pm.

[DrBill100]

Estimating consumption rate of 2 drinks per hour would result in a BAC at time of last drink right at .24 (est weight at 160).

Time from last drink to test 89 hours - time of alcohol metabolism 16 hours = 73 hr for EtG elimination.

On average, that is not enough time.

If the Lasix is related to liver or kidney disorder then detection becomes far more likely.

From BAC=0, 78 hours would be the likely detection window for heavy and prolonged drinking. The other end of the range would be as little as 40 hours for clearance.

You throw me off with the statement of today/Tuesday. If the test is tomorrow, Tuesday, then the odds improve significantly.

EtG elimination at high levels of consumption is ill-defined. There are no studies that specifically specify quantity at those levels. All that is available are BAC levels from which quantity must be extrapolated. The higher the level of consumption the greater the margin of error in predicting the results.

Please let us know the results.

[DenverJack]

Okay more specific. Lasix is to compliment Adipex for weight loss? Wants to lose 75 pounds and has been taking it every morning for 6 weeks. Both of them. No known liver or kidney problems.
And yes the test is Tuesday but 7:30am and he quit drinking at 2am Friday (so he drank Thursday early evening into Friday am)
Does ths change your predictions?

[DrBill100]

Time is the secret to this test. That puts the time at 77.5 hours whereas I projected 78 was needed.

The fact that he has been taking a diuretic is in all likelihood helpful to EtG elimination. Still too close to call but I would say the odds are in favor of passing at 100 ng cutoff. If the cutoff is 500 he will probably pass.

As example, a study of 32 detox patients with BACs ranging from .10 to .34 were tested from BAC=0 and the median clearance time was 66 hours, with a range from 30 to 110 hours (cutoff 500). See Helander 2009

Please let us know the results of the test.

[DenverJack]

Tested Tuesday morning at 7:15am. What do you think based on that time? I will repost with result, his last test took 1 week to get results, but they were negative. He has tested positive before and apparently they came back much quicker. Not sure if pos. result had any affect on reply time, probably in a hurry to violate him. Got 30 days and still can't quit drinking (2nd offense DUI and then violatd terms). Comes to meetings every day, just having a really hard time. I am doing what I can, but not much one can do when they wait until they are drunk to pick up that phone.

[DrBill100]

A couple of hours is inconsequential. Chronic heavy drinkers often metabolize alcohol at twice the rate of social drinkers, approaching .03 per hr.

But in the case of your friend it is either this test or the next. Even totally abstinent individuals fail at a rate of about 8%. Anyone subjected to EtG testing is in peril of a positive, false or legitimate. When one begins to push the boundaries of EtG testing, or time their drinking, it is inevitable that they will be detected.

How old is your friend?

[DenverJack]

I would say 38-40. Were not tight, just members of AA together. His situation has landed him broke and living with another guy in the program. They have no internet, that's why I'm the middle man.

I have done a lot of research on the subject since I also test. I however am more interested in WHY we produce ETG's. Not how to get rid of them, as I have been able to stay sober since beginning the ETG testing. I did relapse in AA, resulting in a DUI (1st offense) however have remained sober since. I would like to know why they are produced, how they help the body or if in fact they hurt the body the whole time they are hanging around?

Also, people mention false positives a lot, however there is a test that they can do that can confirm if the ETG detected was actually caused from alcohol. I had a false positive, and was adimate I was NOT drinking, since I was NOT!! The 80 hour test is an umbrella test, as it was explained to me, hence the high rate of false positives. They resubmitted the sample to the lab and they were able to rule out alcohol as the cause. However, I do not know what the cause was. I had surgery about 3 or 4 days prior to that test and under-went anesthia, pain pills, pain shots, etc... It is my thought that the combo just stressed my liver, causing it to over-work. I was NOT however drinking, and was ultimately able to scientifically prove it.

[DrBill100]

The source of EtG cannot be determined. If on getting a false positive your sample was re-tested, the initial result came from an immunoassay (screening) and on re-test they used the more precise LC/MS/MS (confirmation). The confirmation should have been conducted following the initial results but more and more labs are simply returning the results of the screen and performing confirmation only by request.

EtG is the same whether deriving from grandma's fruit cake or a shot of Seagrams. One of the many problems with the concept of the test. Here is a good starting point if you're interested in learning more about the test: Ethylglucuronide

[DenverJack]

I'll check it out. I WILL also post test result when he let's us know. Hardly anyone in these panic threads comes back and posts results. If he disappears for 90 days I will assume it was positive, lol. Well, not really funny... cunning, powerful, baffling, AND patient!!

[Fr_Chuck]

I will add not real serious about weight loss, you don't drink that much beer and ever expect to lose any weight.

But please let us know how the test goes, as noted, this is really border line

[DenverJack]

Finally got an answer and the results were negative. He has also managed to remain sober again and seems to be on the right track.
Thanks for all the help Dr. Bill, your links were very informative for myself. I will say this about the testing; if you are in the population of a true false positive, it seems that you are really in a very bad position. With the test being somewhat unreliable. I'm not sure how when questioned it could ever be used against someone definitively. It seems as though it could create a real **** storm in court and cause some serious problems for someone who could very well be telling the truth. There has to be a better way, however, for the most part it does seem to rule out alcohol on most occasions. But for the few that DO get a FALSE positive the ramifications could be severe.

[DrBill100]

Finally got an answer and the results were negative. He has also managed to remain sober again and seems to be on the right track.

Jack, thanks for reporting the results. Your friend is around the age when a great number of drinkers begin to mature out. Hope for the best...

From your standpoint remember the erratic nature of the test. Watch what you eat for 12 hours before the test and drink plenty of water the day before the test and a glass or two about an hour before the test. That will go a long way toward avoiding false positives from incidental exposure or food items.

Any questions you have on EtG or the test, just ask.

[DenverJack]

Here I am all worried about him for going out, getting stone cold drunk, not passing, and ending up in jail... I go in today and find out my last test came back dilute. I drink a ton of water as a rule, has nothing to do with testing. So I typically have to test in the morning to be more concentrated. I knew I could not go in on the particular morning involved so I had to take a shot at the PM test and sure enough it came back dilute. I haven't drank a drop and here's this other guy, passed out less than 80 hours before his test and he passes with flying colors. The irony of it all. I have had one other dilute and it was also a PM drop, for this reason I have only tested in the AM since. Had no choice here, and got nailed again. If I were drinking I would have waited the extra 12 hours... I shouldn't have a problem anyway. Dilute is not a fail in my county thank god.
Have a Very Happy Holiday... Stay away from wet faces and wet places. And if your having a hard time with the holidays, don't do Christmas, just do Sunday! There are not to many decisions that can't wait 24 hours to be made, so wait till tomorrow.
I don't even want to think about how many POSITIVE ETG tests will come back this holiday season. Just don't pick up, it is just not worth the stress. I'm rambling, lol.