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JamesO · Nov 4, 2004, 08:11 PM

I've seen plenty about the opposite problem - maybe this is something less common: my toilet flange is above the anticipated floor level. I recently removed old tile from the bathroom floor, planning to install new tile. In so doing, I discovered that the old tile was set on about 3 inches of thinset/mortar - which had effectively built up the floor 3 inches. Now once that's been removed, I've got a toilet flange with a base/bottom approx 3 inches above the floor boards. Once the new concrete backing board and tile is placed on the floor, I'll probably still have a couple of inches of flange protruding from floor level. Is there a safe way to push the flange down into or towards the drain somewhat? I haven't checked for sure yet, but I think that it's a straight (unbent) flange - unless there isn't such a thing. HELP!

Thanks,

speedball1 · Nov 5, 2004, 05:35 AM

Good morning James,
In order to answer I will have to know the material the flange consists of. Cast iron with a lead joint or PVC with the flange glued in? There are different methods for both. This is not a big deal no matter what you have. I can walk you through the process when I know what I'm dealing with. I'll wait on your reply. Regards, Tom

JamesO · Nov 5, 2004, 09:03 AM

Tom:

Thanks for the quick reply - it's a cast iron flange.

speedball1 · Nov 5, 2004, 10:45 AM

When I'm faced with a cast iron flange that has to be lowered I take a small block of 2 X 4 and holding it against the pipe wall start to work it down by using a hammer and tapping the block all the way around the pipe. Make sure the greatest force is directed against the inside part of the flange next to the pipe wall and not the outside next to the slots. Remember, cast iron's brittle so tap lightly but firmly, don't try to beat it to death. Slowly tap your way around the flange until it's down against the floor line. You will not have to pour a new lead joint however, The lead seal will be loosened so you will have to take a set of inside and .outside caulking irons and recaulk the lead joint. You will be left with a few inches of 4" cast iron pipe exposed. I take a cresent wrench, and taking small bites nibble the pipe down to the joint. If you recaulk the lead joint and the joint is tight you can take the pipe down piece by piece until the toilet can be reset. A jagged edge left on the pipe's Ok since the throat of the bowl will extend below the flange line and nothing will catch on the pipe. Good luck, Tom

[email protected] · Nov 8, 2004, 05:10 PM

I have that same problem onlye with PVC instead of cast iron. We took out 2 layers of ceramic tile and now have about an inch of old rotted wood spacer holding our flange off the new linoleum floor. The pipe running down from the flange is black PVC.

That particular line is a hodge-podge of joins beneath the floor - when the house was remodeled it was very difficult for the plumber to get the right drop from our toilet, so there's no place beneath the floor where we can cut and put in a shorter piece of pipe.

I didn't want to try to do something from the top without advice because I was afraid I'd mess up the pipe beneath the floor.

How would you suggest I approach this? Calling a plumber is a response I kind of expect to get, so don't worry if that's what you need to say.

Thanks,

Jeanne

labman · Nov 8, 2004, 08:43 PM

Plumbers aren't magicians. The do know a lot of tricks like Tom suggesting nibbling the cast iron pipe off little by little with a wrench. The plumber would have to rip stuff out to get at a place where he could work, or rip more pipe out. Can you find 2 places where you have a couple of inches of pipe that could accept a coupling? Cut the pipe there and cement in new pipe and fittings as needed. The more elbows you eliminate, the less likely the drain will stop up. Make sure you buy drain, and not the shorter pressure elbows. Black PVC? Make sure it is not ABS. ABS is no big deal except you must use ABS fittings and ABS cement. Pipe from the factory tells on it what it is. Old pipe in a house may not. Burn a scrap. ABS will give a burning styrofoam stench. If it smells more acid, heat a copper wire in a gas flame, pick up a little of it and stick it back in the flame. If it contains chlorine, PVC, you will get a brilliant green flame. A blowtorch will work.

[email protected] · Nov 9, 2004, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by labman

Can you find 2 places where you have a couple of inches of pipe that could accept a coupling? <snip> Black PVC? Make sure it is not ABS.

Unfortunately the flange is slightly angled to go into a long sweep elbow, which has a short piece of pipe (black ABS) connecting it to a long sweep Y. The short length of pipe is just barely long enough to cut, but not long enough to glue anything to.

We could possibly use on of the flexible couplings on it if we could attach it on at leat one end to the elbow , rather than to pipe - is this feasible? Out only other option seems to be to take it all out to the junction at the other end of that long Y - but that's really beyond our skills, I think, and we'd need a plumber.

Thanks for your help so far.

Jeanne

speedball1 · Nov 9, 2004, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

[email protected]]> Cast iron with a lead joint or PVC with the flange >glued in? There are different methods for both. >This is not a big deal no matter what you have.

I'm listenng to the "this is not a big deal" part and hoping you have an idea for me to try. Mine is PVC with the flange glued on. Its about an inch above floor level and there doesn't appear to be a way to cut it off below floor level without having to go out about 15 feet of complex patched together drain.

Is it possible, do you think, to cut the pipe at the bottom of the flange and then glue on another flange? If so, how would I go about it to do it the right way?

Thanks, I hope you can help!

jeanne

Good morning Jeanne,
No sweat! Simply cut the old ABS flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new PVC flange. Use Oatey All Purpose Cement.
Don't forget to get a small can of primer and coat both the outside of the pipe and the inside of the flange before you glue. If you don't you will not get a decent glue joint and the flange will pull up and out. ( Black PVC? Make sure it is not ABS. ABS is no big deal except you must use ABS fittings and ABS cement.) Black PVC = ABS. As for gluing on a PVC fitting onto ABS pipe it used to be a no-no. However there is a glue out, (Oatey All Purpose Cement ) that will let you do just that. Check it out at http://store.watergardenweb.com/pvcabscement.html good luck, Tom[/QUOTE]

pg633 · Nov 22, 2004, 12:55 PM

Great info on closet flanges being too high. I have a similar problem and would appreciate additional help. I had to move my toilet about 4'. In order to keep the correct pitch the closet flange is too high. I have a 3" pvc street el 90 coming up through the floor. I have been trying to find a 3" "flush mount" closet flange that fits over the 3" drain. Do they make such an animal or is another option available? I need to lower the closet flange about ¾ to 1”. Appreciate any help.

speedball1 · Nov 23, 2004, 06:54 AM

PG633,
No sweat! Simply cut the old flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange. By flush mount I assume you mean a flange without the stock on the bottom. Ace hardware has one at,
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...entPage=search
Go check it out. This flange is ABS but will glue on to PVC using Oatey PVC/ABS cement. http://store.watergardenweb.com/pvcabscement.html regards, Tom

pg633 · Nov 23, 2004, 07:08 AM

Tom,

Thanks for the help and quick reply. I checked out the link to Ace and the flush mount flange is a 4". I need 3". I am hoping I can make the same think by cutting off some of the stock on a standard 3" flange. I just need to make sure that my finished floor is higher then the stop on the 3" street el 90. It's close but I think I can make it. I tried to attach a picture but the file is too large.

Thanks again
pg633

1timer · Apr 4, 2005, 04:07 PM

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but this is close to what I'm experiencing. I believe I have 3 inch pvc long turn or sweep wye coming up from the bottom. The closet flange that goes on top of this is not level and it is three and a half inches from the floor. I've read this thread and I'm hoping the response pertains to me. Obviously I want to lower the flange and or pipe to the ground and have it leveled. I will be installing ceramic tile and mortar, so I would have to include this in making sure that everything fits flush. Will this quote "Simply cut the old flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange" solve my problem or will I have to bust the cement back up again and go with another aproach. Thank you.

speedball1 · Apr 5, 2005, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by 1timer

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but this is close to what I'm experiencing. I believe I have 3 inch pvc long turn or sweep wye coming up from the bottom. The closet flange that goes on top of this is not level and it is three and a half inches from the floor. I've read this thread and I'm hoping the response pertains to me. Obviously I want to lower the flange and or pipe to the ground and have it leveled. I will be installing ceramic tile and mortar, so I would have to include this in making sure that everything fits flush. Will this quote "Simply cut the old flange off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange" solve my problem or will I have to bust the cement back up again and go with another aproach. thank you.

Install your ceramic tile, leaving a 3/8" opening around the 3" PVC for the new flange to slip over and then to use your words, "Simply cut the old flange and PVC off at the floor line, making sure that you file, sand or cut back any part that isn't level with the floor line and then glue in a new 3" PVC flange".
That should get the job done. Regards, Tom

1timer · Apr 5, 2005, 07:52 AM

Thanks, Tom for the response. I wish those were my words, I did put them in quotaton. Your words were understood, but because the flange was not on straight I thought there would be a problem. I forgot to mention, that the long turn wye coming up from the bottom-the base, cap, or stock I'm not sure what the actual name is had been cut off already. Well, I'm going to cut what's left and see what happens from there. Thanks for your advice and keep up the great work.
vince

speedball1 · Apr 6, 2005, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by 1timer

Thanks, Tom for the response. I wish those were my words, I did put them in quotaton. Your words were understood, but because the flange was not on straight I thought there would be a problem. I forgot to mention, that the long turn wye coming up from the bottom-the base, cap, or stock I'm not sure what the actual name is had been cut off already. Well, I'm going to cut whats left and see what happens from there. Thanks for your advice and keep up the great work.
vince

Hey Vince,
Even if the stub up is a bit under the floor level when you tile you can purchase a "deep closet flange" that will still mate up with the underfloor stub up. Good luck, Tom

1timer · Apr 6, 2005, 07:14 AM

Thanks for the advice. I'm at work right now, will try to see if I can do this in the next couple of days. I did cut the old flange off, I have about a 3/8 in inch stub sticking up from the ground.
vince

tommytman · Apr 6, 2005, 08:55 PM

Guys,

If you are dealing with cast iron that is too high you can cut it off with a saw, grind it with an angle grinder, or chip it off like Speedball said (sawing is not recommended ). If you don't want to use a lead joint upon reassembly check these out. They are PVC with rubber gaskets that slide inside your existing cast iron pipe... I used one and it was good to go... You can also use them with PVC pipe 4 or 3 inch. A good tip is to take the gasket off and test fit the flange. Then you can trim your toilet pipe, put the gasket back on and slide it in place. Don't forget to anchor it (the flange) to the floor.

http://www.plumbest.com/searchengine...atalog/e93.htm

Also scroll through the pages and you will find any toilet flange you may ever need.

Giddy-up!

1timer · Apr 7, 2005, 07:36 AM

Thanks for the resource tommytman. I bought another 3 inch pvc closet flange 4x3 and cutoff the stock as much as I could, but I'm still too high. I found out that I can only go down an inch before I hit the stop. If, I placed a closet extender over top of the stub it would fit pretty much flush with the floor, but there would be no gasket into the pipe. So, I guess if I had an extender with a 1 inch drop I would be fine.

darrel1953 · Apr 7, 2005, 03:49 PM

Plumbing shops and wholesale houses have 2 different closet flanges available for both 3" and 4" size ABS pipe. 1 goes inside the pipe and one goes outside of the pipe. This makes it real easy to remedy cases like this.

1timer · Apr 8, 2005, 08:14 AM

Just want to say thanks to tom, tommytman and darrel1953 for your advice. To make a long story short, I went to two different supply houses and could not get what I was looking for. The link that tommytman gave me was what I was looking for at the time. I called and talked to their reps and was finally starting to understand some of the "plumbing jargon" everyone was speaking. I finally ended up buying 2 flanges from Lowe's that were from the link that Tommytman supplied earlier. I bought a 3 inch that goes inside and a 4 inch that goes outside the pipe. I think that's right, I don't have them in front of me. The biggest problem that I encountered is that the supply houses kept giving me a flush mount flange that had a bevel under the flange. When I finally found the flush mount that was truly "flush" I started to understand what Tom was talking about. I can write a book on this particular experience, but I will save some space for someone else with problems in this forum. Thanks again for the help, I truly appreciate it.
vince