[harleymaxx]

Hi everyone,
I have twin 4yo's that could not be more opposite if they tried. Twin one acts as though he is 4 going on 40 and he has the attitude and the obnoxious behaviour to go with it. I am going to sound so awful and I feel so guilty saying all these negative things about my son, but I don't know what to do. He is a manipulative, sly and cunning child. He adores my husband (his dad) but dislikes me so has worked out that he can play us off on each other. He is above average in intelligence but he knows it and throws it in his brothers (twin 2) face. He bullies him, tells him what to do, looks down upon him all the time. I am on his back about it ALL the time. Twin 2 on the other hand is very mellow, relaxed and easy going. Sometimes too much that he becomes lazy. He hides behind his brother to get out of doing any work.
Just recently thrown into this equation is my daughter, who is now 10 months old. The bond that she and I have is so strong that it feels like my heart will burst with love. Twin 2 and I have a bond that we formed when he was about 18 months old. But twin 1 has his bond with his daddy, and he is one awesome daddy I must say. Twin ones attitude toward me is getting worse and worse. He is disrespectful, lies to me, throws a tantrum at EVERY single thing I tell him to do, doesn't listen to me and doesn't do as I ask. This behaviour is making him very unlikeable to me amd it has got to the point where I don't know how to show him I love him. This child plays me and manipulates me and I just don't know what to do, I have cried and cried last night because it has gotten so bad. We have tried EVERY form of punishment but he still behaves the same to me. My husband and I have a perfect marriage but this will draw a wedge between us. Please help.

[harleymaxx]

I am currently at war with my 4 yo twin 1. He his outright defiant, but will not let his father see him this respecting me. He very cunningly speaks to me a certain way while my husband is home and can hear or see it, then changes to the attitude that has become the problem when he leaves. We are very strict with our children's upbringing. Both the boys have been smacked, put on a "naughty mat" and had toys or activities taken away from them, as a way of punishmenmt.taking things away from him seems the most effective but this just seems to fuel twin 1 into dislaking me even more.I did become very angry and hurt towards him for a few weeks because he is breaking my heart with the way he is. He has told me that he wants to be with daddy not me, so I am just a fill in. He manipulates a situation incredibly well to make it go his way, but watch out if it doesn't,t. He has above average intelligence and knows it. I just don't know what to do anymore. My 4 yo makes me cry every day because of his treatment of me and also of his twin brother. This is a just very brief version of what haooens, just the tip of the iceberg, but I hope it is enough for someone to maybe have some new ideas that I could try. I have also done the reward charts which worked to a degree but then he had to always do one better than his brother. We have also sat him down and asked him outright why he does it, and he says he wanys to be with daddy. It is devastating to think my 4 YO thinks so little of me and really all I can do is cry.

[tickle]

Why are you letting as four year old rule your life, harley? He is only FOUR YEARS OLD, what does he know about anything. You are taking this too much to heart and you should start to rule the nest. Get him in jr. kindergarten and let him deal with the other kids on his own level.

Tick

[Fr_Chuck]

Get a grip on life, he is four, I will assume "smacking" is merely a swat, but beyond that, you punish him when bad, not all kids get punished the same, or the same works, so one may have things taken away, another time out and so on.

They only control you if you let them, If they lie to their faither ( I will assume you are not their mother) just call them down, even punish them for lying.

Assuming you are a parent in this, act like one.

[JoeCanada76]

I am currently at war with my 4 yo twin 1. He his outright defiant, but will not let his father see him this respecting me. He very cunningly speaks to me a certain way while my husband is home and can hear or see it, then changes to the attitude that has become the problem when he leaves. We are very strict with our children's upbringing. Both the boys have been smacked, put on a "naughty mat" and had toys or activities taken away from them, as a way of punishmenmt.taking things away from him seems the most effective but this just seems to fuel twin 1 into dislaking me even more.I did become very angry and hurt towards him for a few weeks because he is breaking my heart with the way he is. He has told me that he wants to be with daddy not me, so I am just a fill in. He manipulates a situation incredibly well to make it go his way, but watch out if it doesn't,t. He has above average intelligence and knows it. I just don't know what to do anymore. My 4 yo makes me cry every day because of his treatment of me and also of his twin brother. This is a just very breif version of what haooens, just the tip of the iceberg, but I hope it is enough for someone to maybe have some new ideas that I could try. I have also done the reward charts which worked to a degree but then he had to always do one better than his brother. We have also sat him down and asked him outright why he does it, and he says he wanys to be with daddy. It is devastating to think my 4 YO thinks so little of me and really all I can do is cry.

The problem lies in you're approach. There are times when children favor one parent over another. It is part of growing up. It is normal.

As far as smacking your kids, is a big no no. As far as being strict parents does not necessarily make you better parents.

If your so strict with these kids then they will act out. They will fight you. There needs to be a fine balance. Both parents must be on the same page in order to get any results.

More mistakes made by you as parents. Punishing them by taking away activities. Is that really necessary. I do not think so, Maybe these children need more family time, and more activities to do. Then they might be better.

Your pretty much insulting your child's intelligence stating that he has average intelligence and he knows it.

I think your blowing everything out of proportion. I think parenting is the biggest problem.

You are sitting there hitting your child. Your punishing your child. You are not giving any room for the child to be breath. You are even treating him worse then your other child. It seems to me there is favoritism going on.

You are punishing him for telling you the truth. He wants to be with his daddy and likes his daddy better. What do you do? You sit there and cry about it. What do you think he is thinking when he sees this?

Believe me your not the only parent that will hear a child say that and will not be the last but taking it so personal and sitting there crying for weeks will not help this situation or your relationship with your son.

Especially when you say he has average intelligence that is telling me that you do not really value him as your child and he knows it. So he is acting out.

I hope somebody else pipes in on this thread to give you other perspectives.

Stop taking toys and activities away as punishment.

Punishment for children should be left for series matters. Safety concerns.

Time outs are important but chose your battles very carefully.

No more reactions when he tells you he like daddy better, because your just feeding into his behavior.

No more smacking.

You need to work together as parents to set same guidelines. Children are very smart and will play on parents.

Treat both children the same and stop crying and showing how much this behavior is effecting you.

[jenniepepsi]

You are expecting WAY too much out of a 4 year old!!

And honestly, this is normal 4 year old behavior, then add the baby, and you have a mess.

Welcome to parenthood. This is what it is all about. Your 4 year old CHILD is NOT the reason you are depressed and/or upset! And do NOT blame the CHILD for the problems YOU are dealing with.

It sounds to me very very much like you need help. With yourself, with your children, and time away.

This is all I can say to you without being rude and hateful. I am sorry. I will walk away now

[jenniepepsi]

By the way I have NEVER heard of a child at 4 years old (even an emotionally advanced child of 4) being able to consciously go out of his way JUST to torment you and conspire to upset you. This is in your imagination. And I again strongly urge you to seek some help (I am not being insulting and saying mental help, I am speaking of a friend to share the load, a baby sitter once and a while to get you away. ETC things of that nature. Though seeing a therapist may help you as well)

[QLP]

Looking back at some of your earlier posts, before you had your daughter, and comparing to what you say now, you seem a lot more emotional and are crying a lot now. The first thing I would suggest is that you consider whether you might have a degree of post-natal depression. Might be worth having a chat with your doctor just to see what his/her opinion is.

Next, reading this post, and the similar one about your son, it sounds as though you have a very angry little boy who is using bad behaviour to try and get what he wants. Now, you have to figure out what it is he really does want. My first guess is that he wants more positive attention. Yes, I know he's not going about the right way of getting it, but at only 4 he's doing the best he can. Has his behaviour been worse since your daughter arrived? Sibling jealousy? When I had my daughter my 2 year old son rejected me a little at first and demanded daddy. Kids often do this when mum has a new baby. Because I understood this I was able to change it within a few days, by accepting he had the right to feel that way, and working out what he needed to feel happy again around both of us. What is necessary is to make sure you reinforce how loved and special each child is. Try and make time to spend some individual time with each one. Also, let each of them spend some time with dad too. They need both of you; it's not a competition about who is the most popular parent.

When it comes to discipline make sure that you and your husband are always on the same page. Give the kids the chance to divide and conquer and they will take it. Make sure that you don't go over board by jumping too hard on every little thing. Sit back a little and work out what is really important. If the kids know who is in charge and what is expected from them I find punishments are rarely needed. Make sure that punishments are balanced out with praise for when he does things right. Sometimes we have to work hard to find the things kids do well when their behaviour is out of hand; but if you watch carefully there are always some positives. Even if it is just the fact they sit still and eat, notice this and comment on it. Don't look out for every harsh word he has for his twin - look for the rare moments of kindness and co-operation and tell him how well he is doing for playing nicely. Positive re-inforcement works wonders. Once behaviour improves you can make kids work a little harder to earn that praise but they have to get some to start with to want to earn more. I get the impression that you don't like this child very much right now. If he feels that he will definitely play up. We have to remember that it is their behaviour at a given time we dislike, not the actual child. The behaviour we can change.

Don't try and get him to explain his behaviour, he is too young for that. What you need to do is be the one to explain how he should be behaving and why. E.g 'Don't do that to your brother it makes him sad.' No need to make it complicated. Give him instructions what to do instead. Yes, kids do need to be taught how to play nicely sometimes. Show him how to play co-operatively. Get down with the boys and join in and let them learn by example.

Finally, bored kids are often difficult kids. Be pre-emptive and keep an eye out before trouble starts. Get them started on doing fun things and keep a little encouragement going regularly so things stay on track. A good runaround in the park will also get rid of a lot of that negative energy.

Hang in there, you can turn this around.

[harleymaxx]

Good grief what a barrage. I don't think I really explained myself well at all. In reply...
Yes I did let him get to me too much, I have spoken to a professional who has helped regarding this.
They are both off to kindy next year, which will do wonders with all of us.
I was miss quoted in saying my son has AVERAGE intelligence, whereas I said he has ABOVE AVERAGE intelligence.
Yes jenniepepsi I DO need a break
Fr chuck, you are sooooo far off base its offensive. I AM their mother and I have had nothing but praise for my parenting. I have awesome kids who love us both. This is a hiccup that I thought getting some advice would help, not unnecessary insults.
QLP your reply was awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time and giving the kind of response that I can refer to now and in the future.
In defense of mine and my husbands parenting skills we DO NOT beat our kids, overly punish, restrict or neglect our kids needs. If you knew me you would know in truth it is quite the opposite. Our house is the kind that when you walk in the front door, you can feel the happiness and love around you. We are all human including my kids and we all have days when we are not the best.
Thank you to those who chose to help, shame on you who chose to criticise

[tickle]

good grief what a barrage. i dont think i really explained myself well at all. in reply...
yes i did let him get to me too much, i have spoken to a professional who has helped regarding this.
they are both off to kindy next year, which will do wonders with all of us.
i was miss quoted in saying my son has AVERAGE intelligence, whereas i said he has ABOVE AVERAGE intelligence.
yes jenniepepsi i DO need a break
fr chuck, you are sooooo far off base its offensive. i AM their mother and i have had nothing but praise for my parenting. i have awesome kids who love us both. this is a hiccup that i thought getting some advice would help, not unnecessary insults.
QLP your reply was awesome. thankyou so much for taking the time and giving the kind of response that i can refer to now and in the future.
in defense of mine and my husbands parenting skills we DO NOT beat our kids, overly punish, restrict or neglect our kids needs. if you knew me you would know in truth it is quite the opposite. our house is the kind that when you walk in the front door, you can feel the happiness and love around you. we are all human including my kids and we all have days when we are not the best.
thankyou to those who chose to help, shame on you who chose to criticise

Harley, with all due respect you have to realize, by reading over your original post again, that you may see why some of us provided the replies we did. You came across as a mom who just couldn't cope with a four year old who you thought was an adult in a child's clothing (this is what I got out of your post). You did say you 'smacked' and maybe Father Chuck being the type of person who is thought this was going overboard; you have to respect his opinion as well. I have never known him to give wrong advice, and it only came about because of how your post read out.

I have no doubt at all that you are a wonderful mom but you were probably upset when you posted and the words just came tumbling out in detriment to yourself.

Tick

[jenniepepsi]

I see nothing wrong with the 'smack' as I have used this type of discipline myself, it does not work for my daughter, but it DOES work for my sister in laws children. And other children. Every child is different. Chuck is obviously against it, and that is fine. I don't think he was trying to intentionally hurt your feelings.

I really hope you can get the help and support you need. I would be willing to help you myself if I lived near you.

[tickle]

All depends on how hard the smack is, and how badly it shows up on a child's skin. Authorities notice that as the first thing; shows up as welt, and sometimes the actual handprint on skin.

No, don't go along with that at all.

[jenniepepsi]

I, as a parent absolutely understand the need to vent frustrations, I myself have said on occasion to friends that my own daughter is annoying and obnoxious. And thre is nothing wrong with that! As parents we all need an outlet, and we love our children, but that doesn't mean our children don't drive us insane!

But I have to ask, have you said, or communicated these feelings TO your children? Have you made it obvious that you feel your twins are obnoxious and lazy? Is it possible that your children feed off your frustrations?

I do want to make sure you know, a child of 4 does not go out of his/her way to manipulate and torment. It may SEEM that way. But they are not doing it on purpose or vindictively :) and it is very frustrating. But don't think your child is going out of his way to torment you.


At this point, with your frustration levels being what they are, and how long this has been going on, I suggest you seek out a child psychologist (not psychiatrist, there is a difference, and your children don't need a psychiatrist) go together, and with your husband, and get some counselling sessions together as a family, with just you and your son, and just you and your other son, with just you and your husband. AND just your sons, individually as well as together without you or your husband with them.

I believe that your children are fine, and very normal and typical. But it is the frustration on your part (and your children frustration as well, don't underestimate the ability of frustration in a child) lack of consistency, lack of bonding, and trying to be a united parent unit together, is the problem here. And a psychologist will be able to help the whole family, and each of you individually.

Good luck! And I'm sorry I did not see your question and answer sooner!

[Fr_Chuck]

Various threads merged

[Fr_Chuck]

I have nothing against a swat to the rear, I was asking for what they meant by smack, sorry it sounded like a backhand knocking the kid flat.

And sorry, from the outside, often bad parents may be told they are great parents,

But if you can not control, or if you complain they are controlling you, I don't see a working parenting style.

[jenniepepsi]

Ahh good point chuck! I did not consider that!

[JudyKayTee]

The tantrums have apparently gone uncorrected for about 2 years. Maybe it's time for professional help. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/childr...-337463-2.html

[jenniepepsi]

Yeah that's what I said JKT

[JudyKayTee]

Yeah thats what i said JKT

Absolutely - I just didn't know if you realized this is not a new problem. Wasn't stepping on your toes.

[jenniepepsi]

Oh no hon lol I was agreeing with you :P not trying to say that you were stepping on my toes :P