[mudweiser]

So my daughter is now in J.K.

She's always been an easy going great kid. I've even been complimented on her behavior outside of the home. She hasn't thrown a tempertantrum at the store. She's had her little moments like all kids do but nothing that I could not correct. She's so easy breezy. So I was shocked, saddened, upset when I was told by her teacher that she is defiant with her.

Today she threw dirt and mulch at other children, she yelled at her teacher, she pushed another student, she did not share with others, and oh lordy she tore away a ball from another kid at gym class--- what the heck? Are you sure this is MY kid?

I really don't know what to do. WHAT do I do? In the end the teacher told me that if she continues this way "she is no longer able to come to school". In other words.. my 4 year old is going to be expelled! What the frig?

I am so incredibly lost guys. Rachel is so sweet and poliet but is a polar opposite when she's at school.

Help-- I really need advice.

I've told my friends and family and they too are shocked and are even thinking the teacher is lying or exaggerating (I don't think she would be--- this is just so out of character for her).

I'm so sad and worried.

[tickle]

The teacher has too many children to control, and if she has been with your daughter throughout then probably knows your daughter is not like this. I would not take this sitting down 'expultion' that is. Is she being bullyed by other children? The teacher would know this? You have to sit her down and have a heart to heart talk with your daughter to find out what is going on in class.

Now you have to sit down with your teacher, or whoever and pick her brain to find out what has happened in class. Trust me, I know.

Her teacher knows more then she is letting on; she spends a lot of time with those kids. If they can't stand the fire, they should get out of the furnace.
Tick

[joypulv]

She just might be a little too young and not quite ready. When did she turn 4? How long is her school day? How many other kids are there in one class?

I have a niece who (I think) even bit another kid and was almost expelled. She has lots of siblings so it wasn't a lack of socialization or too much attention from coddling adults. She was fine shortly thereafter. A little learning and adjustment and some basic explanation. What does she say after a brief talk?

[Wondergirl]

I agree with tick that something is going on, and you need to get to the bottom of it.

Would you be able to observe the class? When I taught PK, we had a one-way mirror that parents could look through. Or ask the teacher if you can observe the class, maybe as a volunteer one day (or more) a week. You might be able to see the dynamics that cause your daughter to turn into what the teacher considers a bully. Or you could call together what's known as a staffing, with the teacher, parents, and principal, plus any social worker or counselor you wish to invite. Even better would be an adult unknown to the students but whom you would trust and who would serve as a short-term volunteer in the class (and who would observe the goings-on).

[mudweiser]

The teacher has too many children to control, and if she has been with your daughter throughout then probably knows your daughter is not like this. I would not take this sitting down 'expultion' that is. Is she being bullyed by other children? The teacher would know this? You have to sit her down and have a heart to heart talk with your daughter to find out what is going on in class.

Now you have to sit down with your teacher, or whoever and pick her brain to find out what has happened in class. Trust me, I know.

Her teacher knows more then she is letting on; she spends a lot of time with those kids. If they can't stand the fire, they should get out of the furnace.
tick

Hi Tick thanks for the quick reply.

I don't think my child is being bullied, I'm more than sure she would have told me if other kids were being mean to her.

I have spoken to her but it is a 4 year old you can only get so far.

I will be requesting a parent-teacher meeting with the principal as well.

I do agree with your comment "if they can't stand the fire, they should get out of the fire".

Thanks.

[mudweiser]

She just might be a little too young and not quite ready. When did she turn 4? How long is her school day? How many other kids are there in one class?

I have a niece who (I think) even bit another kid and was almost expelled. She has lots of siblings so it wasn't a lack of socialization or too much attention from coddling adults. She was fine shortly thereafter. A little learning and adjustment and some basic explanation. What does she say after a brief talk?

She turned 4 in Feb.

She only goes to school every Tuesday and Thursday and every other Friday-- it's a full day 9-3:30. There are about 10-15 children in her class.

All my daughter says is "okay mum" when I tell her she has to listen to her teacher, be nice to the other kids and share. She doesn't really say much. I try to talk to her to get more info but I mean she's 4 and not 14... it's hard to get stuff out of a kid that age!

[mudweiser]

I agree with tick that something is going on, and you need to get to the bottom of it.

Would you be able to observe the class? When I taught PK, we had a one-way mirror that parents could look through. Or ask the teacher if you can observe the class, maybe as a volunteer one day (or more) a week. You might be able to see the dynamics that cause your daughter to turn into what the teacher considers a bully. Or you could call together what's known as a staffing, with the teacher, parents, and principal, plus any social worker or counselor you wish to invite. Even better would be an adult unknown to the students but whom you would trust and who would serve as a short-term volunteer in the class (and who would observe the goings-on).

I think that even if I was able to observe the class Rachel would just be her "normal" self. She's great around me... it's when I'm not there that she apparently turns into a tyrant.

Oh wondergirl.. this is only the beginning of my parenting years I'm already feeling overwhelmed. Pfft.

[Wondergirl]

I think that even if I was able to observe the class Rachel would just be her "normal" self.

At first, yes, but then you would become part of the furniture after a few times doing it. I do like the idea of someone else observing, though.

this is only the beginning of my parenting years I'm already feeling overwhelmed. Pfft.

My mother always wanted to throw me, the first born, away, and start fresh with my brother who was born four years later. By that time, she sort of knew what she was doing. Now, in my 60s with all this life experience under my belt, I would be a wonderful first-time mother!

[mudweiser]

So I had the meeting. Oh boy I feel so sad and stressed.

So my daughter apparently has aggressive behavior towards others-- spitting, kicking, hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, taking things... just a defiant little child.

I never see this side of her!

The teacher also told me that she smiles and giggles when she is being sent to time out or is being reprimanded.

I don't know what to do.

The teacher and I started this reward system. When she has a good day she'll get a sticker and if she has a bad day she won't. For every sticker she gets she gets a reward but for every bad note she gets a privilege taken away.

What else can I do? Should I look into a child pyschologist --- this aggressive behavior is so alien to me-- where would she get this from? I'm lost.

[tickle]

The teacher also told me that she smiles and giggles when she is being sent to time out or is being reprimanded.



What else can I do? Should I look into a child pyschologist --- this aggressive behavior is so alien to me-- where would she get this from? I'm lost.

Probably nothing you did, or bringing her up to this point; in my view it is inherent behavior. I don't like the sound of 'smiles and giggles when she is being sent for time out'... after acting out this way.

Yes, you should look into a child pyschologist, but you don't have a partner, and you are a single parent; so where does the other side come from? You have to face that possibility and if you want your daughter to thrive and prosper you will have to go into that too. I don't know how you feel about that.

I wish you all the luck in the world my dear; this can't be pleasant and I feel for you immensly but don't be offended if I hit some raw nerves because I don't know you and only reaching out to this objective.

Hugs, tick

[mudweiser]

Probably nothing you did, or bringing her up to this point; in my view it is inherent behavior. I dont like the sound of 'smiles and giggles when she is being sent for time out'....after acting out this way.

Yes, you should look into a child pyschologist, but you dont have a partner, and you are a single parent; so where does the other side come from? You have to face that possibility and if you want your daughter to thrive and prosper you will have to go into that too. I dont know how you feel about that.

I wish you all the luck in the world my dear; this can't be pleasant and I feel for you immensly but dont be offended if i hit some raw nerves because i dont know you and only reaching out to this objective.

hugs, tick

I will call our GP tomorrow and get a referral to a child pyschologist.

I really feel so sad. I feel like I raised her wrong or something.

[Wondergirl]

I feel like I raised her wrong or something.

I know. It's easy to feel that way when you see your child having problems. In this case, since she has always been well behaved, it makes you wonder where this "other child" is coming from.

When I taught Pre-K, we had one sweet little girl who wouldn't hush up at home, but in school never said a word the entire year, to anyone. Nowadays, that's called Selective Mutism. A little boy was wonderful at home, but at school during bathroom breaks would pee on the other boys "because I want to watch them scream." I'm not sure what they call that nowadays. :eek:

When a child suddenly is faced with a lot of peers to interact with, like in school, it's a bit overwhelming. That doesn't excuse bad behavior, which needs to be addressed as you are going to do with the chart system. And visiting a child psychologist is a good idea simply to head off further social problems.

Please keep us informed as to how things are going.

[mudweiser]

I know. It's easy to feel that way when you see your child having problems. In this case, since she has always been well behaved, it makes you wonder where this "other child" is coming from.

When I taught Pre-K, we had one sweet little girl who wouldn't hush up at home, but in school never said a word the entire year, to anyone. Nowadays, that's called Selective Mutism. A little boy was wonderful at home, but at school during bathroom breaks would pee on the other boys "because I want to watch them scream." I'm not sure what they call that nowadays. :eek:

When a child suddenly is faced with a lot of peers to interact with, like in school, it's a bit overwhelming. That doesn't excuse bad behavior, which needs to be addressed as you are going to do with the chart system. And visiting a child psychologist is a good idea simply to head off further social problems.

Please keep us informed as to how things are going.

Thank-you so much for your help Wondergirl (and Tick) and, I really appreciate it.

I have the referral now I'm just waiting for an appointment now. I will keep you posted, any more feedback will be great.

[martinizing2]

Hi Mudweiser, (I love that name )

I too would be greatly interested in observing her while she is not aware you can see her.
Too often educators and such don't have the time or knowledge to deal with many problems in children , so boot ' them and feed 'em Ritalin is taking the place of childcare.

It is obvious enough how much you care and that alone is a major factor in working these things out. Caring enough to do something does not seem to be as popular as it used to be.

Kids will be kids and learning how to interact with others is part of it.
Some go about it in ways you never imagined .

They are individuals with their own ideas and may be testing the information given them to see if it works, or their own ideas work better.

How the other kids interact is going to give her examples of behavior she has not seen before and she may be trying out what she sees others do.

I'll bet a few beers she is very smart, and learned how to get her way at school which does not apply at home.
So she reacts in accordance to where she is and who is in charge .

They should be born with an instruction manual or at least FAQ sheet.

You are aware and concerned. Traits lacking in more parents than I care to think about.
You will be fine.

[mudweiser]

Hi I'm happy to report that she has had a pretty good day!

It is only day one of the new sticker system (I attached a photo of what it looks like).

She gets to pick her own sticker when she's being good :-)

Some things she needs to work on:
-not staying in the center at circle time
-fighting over books
-not playing nicely and cooperating

Other than that she had a pretty good day :-)

The teacher divided the day into smaller times so that she will experience success more often throughout the day and as she progresses she'll lengthen those periods :-)

[tickle]

Muddy, that is good, and I hope a progressive day makes you feel better; it isn't your fault. There are glitches in all of our personalities, they just show up at different times and places. You are lucky that this is something that turned up early and you CAN work with. She is is a lovely little girl, and you have let us follow you and her for a couple of years, and you are a treassure, both of you.

Tick

[martinizing2]

I've seen kids at three and four years old I would have considered placing in an electrified barbed wire enclosure because of their behavior at that age. Yet with some TLC and Attention it all went away in a matter of days or weeks... sometimes months and... seldom more. Polite PC behavior is taught, and is contrary to the survival instinct that is "hard wired" in. Manners do not occur.

It is where they are discovering themselves as independent beings and how they explore and express this can initiate behavior never thought possible from one so small and innocent.
They need structure and consistency at this point , just like you are doing.

Muddy , you may be worrying a bit too much. But it is a world better than not to be concerned and do nothing , or attribute it to something that relieves anyone of the effort parenting takes.

It's easier to blame ADD, get the Ritalin or Desoxin and drug them into submission.. . Just for the record: the generic name of Desoxin is methamphetmine and is a prescribed drug to "treat" Add children even younger than yours.

I don't want to get off on a rant here... so I'll shut up.

Muddy your biggest problem is you care , which you'll soon see is not a problem.
You too are young, and learning how to do the most important job you'll ever have and experience will be your teacher. Each child is different and others experiences can only be guidelines at best. Your dealing with a unique individual that will sometimes require unique methods .

[mudweiser]

Hello again friends.

I have come with some bad news :-(

So Rachel hasn't improved much all since Day 1 she's still pushing and spitting on other kids, as well as being defiant with the teacher :-(


I told her if that happened again I would take ALL her toys away-- so I did today.

All that is left in her room are her clothes, paper, books, and crayons.

Most kids would have cried, she didn't-- she even helped me put stuff away (what's up with that?).

I told her if she is bad again in school I would take off her posters she has on her walls.

I'm at my wits end guys.

What the heck do I do?

[mudweiser]

*bump*

[Wondergirl]

Thanks for the bump. Trust me, I've been thinking a lot about your situation and have no clue what is going on in her head.

Did you ever connect with a child psychologist?