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    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #41

    Sep 6, 2011, 10:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, smoothy:

    I'm not into giving people a free lunch either, and certainly there are SOME of those...

    But, as I have corrected you before, what you're saying is just NOT SO! The BULK of the 47% of the people you're talking about, DO contribute just like YOU and I do. True, the don't pay income taxes, but they pay PLENTY of federal taxes where most of the federal budget is derived... Just to list a few taxes they pay: Payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, Medicare taxes, federal telephone taxes, federal gasoline taxes, federal excise taxes, and they pay plenty of state taxes too, like sales tax, cigarette tax, beer tax, highway tax, car tab fees, drivers license fees, and I could go on and on... Yup. Looks like they contribute to ME.

    So, if you wanna repeat right wing talking points, be prepared to BACK them up...

    excon
    Federal Income tax is a federal tax... state taxes are state taxes, MANY states the income tax are factored and based against your Federal income tax returns... Reduce or eliminate the Federal and the state obligation decreases or goes away too.

    And many of these worthless lumps don't just get away with paying nothing... many get money back for doing nothing but breathing. That is a net LOSS for the Federal tax coffers... which means they are worse than simply not contributing... they are siphoning off tax dollars that might actually go to something useful (but more than likely just some pork project).
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #42

    Sep 6, 2011, 10:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    You guys have a 50% employment rate?????
    Where did you get that from? 47% of the population effectively pay no income tax... thanks to liberal tax credits... and worse, many of those actually get money back from the tax trough they never earned or had deducted in the first place...

    Not sure how taxes are handled in Canada... but here its all smoke and mirrors... they pretend to pay... but thanks to lefty breaks and adjustments... they might get $10,000 returned when there was only $3,000 withheld in the first place.

    That means $7,000 of someone else's taxes went not to the government to pay for government projects... but to some lefty who dropped out of high school. Or feels working hard to get ahead is against his civil rights.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #43

    Sep 6, 2011, 11:19 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    47% of the population effectively pay no income tax.
    Oh you referring to that myth.

    It's A Myth That 47% Of Americans Pay No Taxes, In Truth 86% Pay Taxes

    Daily Kos: Breaking Down the 'Half Pay No Taxes' Myth

    47 Percent 'Don't Pay Taxes'? No Big Deal - Business - The Atlantic Wire
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #44

    Sep 6, 2011, 11:43 AM
    If you are going to pull out blogs with no accountability or credibility... I'm sure I can find a blog or two that claim Obama is a space alien too. But that's not going to prove anything either.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #45

    Sep 6, 2011, 11:47 AM
    You mean those article I posted with links to their sources? Yea, those.

    You just don't even bother even looking at them do you?
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #46

    Sep 6, 2011, 01:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    You have that backwards - that's a neocon tactic called "the shock doctrine". Google it.
    Ah, so some Canadian author's conspiracy theory is what we should be worried about? I'd put that in the same category as "the Dominionist conspiracy." Total BS.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #47

    Sep 6, 2011, 01:01 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    You mean those article I posted with links to their sources? Yea, those.

    You just don't even bother even looking at them do you?
    I looked at them... obscure no-name pro-liberal blog places with no real reputation at any of them. Just because you find it on the net doesn't mean its true.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
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    #48

    Sep 6, 2011, 01:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Okay I'll bite, how much should a $19,000 (The per capita income of TEXAS), family of FOUR, be expected pay in income taxes?
    Id say right about 15% after they get their prebate. That covers the tax on the basics for a family of 4. Pass the fair tax and be done with it.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #49

    Sep 6, 2011, 01:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by smoothy View Post
    I looked at them......obscure no-name pro-liberal blog places with no real reputation at any of them. Just because you find it on the net doesn't mean its true.
    So these places are all discounted by you:
    Census.gov
    Finance,senate.gov
    IRS.gov

    All those all liberal conspiracy sites?
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    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #50

    Sep 6, 2011, 01:21 PM
    Quote by Calidad;
    Id say right about 15% after they get their prebate. That covers the tax on the basics for a family of 4. Pass the fair tax and be done with it.
    So that means a family of 4 can live off roughly $16,150 dollars a year, after taxes.


    In 2009, in the United States of America, the poverty threshold for a single person under 65 was US$11,161; the threshold for a family group of four, including two children, was US$21,756.
    Poverty threshold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Poverty Thresholds 2009 - U.S Census Bureau

    That makes Texas a welfare state right?? The Gov. of that welfare state wants to be President based on his accomplishments on behalf of that welfare state.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
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    #51

    Sep 6, 2011, 01:52 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    So that means a family of 4 can live off of roughly $16,150 dollars a year, after taxes.




    Poverty threshold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Poverty Thresholds 2009 - U.S Census Bureau

    That makes Texas a welfare state right??? The Gov. of that welfare state wants to be President based on his accomplishments on behalf of that welfare state.
    If you go by the fair tax then that 16,150 would be adjusted up by the amount they receive in the prebate. And if your asking can they live at that level? If they are then it stands to reason they can. There still may be other programs in place to help.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #52

    Sep 6, 2011, 02:35 PM
    Can you support YOUR family on $336 dollars a week? With no help for rent, utilities, transportation, education, or medicine??

    My point, that's a hard living with a couple of kids, and no outside help. But those programs are the very ones being put on the cut list. Those are the new jobs being created here, a majority at least, and the unemployment rate is ticking up, not down. What am I missing here, because we still have a big deficit.

    I can get with tax reform, but I am not seeing how more working poor jobs gets the economy working again? Help!!
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,492, Reputation: 2853
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    #53

    Sep 6, 2011, 04:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    So these places are all discounted by you:
    census.gov
    finance,senate.gov
    irs.gov

    All those all liberal conspiracy sites?
    Do you actually believe the true unemployment rate is what the government reports? You would be VERY wrong to say yes... that number only counts those actually collecting benefits... not how many are actually unemployed that want to be working, those who gave up trying or those whose benefits have run out. The REAL unemployment numbers are far higher than the fudged numbers are intended to lead you believe.

    But I suppose the libs only believe the government completely when a liberal is in office... here's a newsflash... the libs lie even more than the average politician. And you don't think a government worker isn't influenced to do what the powers that be demands... without fear of payback... think again. If the government is involved... you can count on someone cooking the books.

    And besides... YOU didn't quote those sources anyway... you picked three practically unknown liberal blogs.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #54

    Sep 6, 2011, 05:16 PM
    All right Smoothy, post your sources that you trust or shut up forever about liberal conspiracies.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #55

    Sep 6, 2011, 05:19 PM
    Also you never ever comment on the content of articles, you always deflect to some other argunment that you invent.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
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    #56

    Sep 7, 2011, 04:52 AM
    Hey Karma you know he is right, the figures are fudged. Knowing that doesn't help the situation, it just means that the recovery is further away
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #57

    Sep 7, 2011, 08:00 AM
    Speaking of the new super congress and taxes, how about letting the IRS do your taxes for you?

    Imagine this scenario: The IRS may soon just do your taxes for you — and send you the bill.

    If this sounds farfetched, it’s not.

    With a new congressional “super committee” tasked with finding $1.5 trillion in cuts by November, creative ways to find additional revenue are in high demand. And allowing the IRS to prepare you taxes could be one solution.

    The idea has been around for a while, but has been picking up steam in recent years. In 2006, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) argued it would close a $345 billion annual difference between what the government believes taxpayers owe them and what the IRS actually collects, which he calls the “tax gap.”

    “I think the solution [to the tax gap problem] is to get rid of the middle-man and no fees required,” he said.

    Obama’s former Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers Austan Goolsbee made a strong case for it in a 2006 New York Times op-ed, explaining, “… the revenue service could send you a tax form already filled out with the information it has for you — a Simple Return — rather than a blank tax form. You would simply check the numbers against your W-2 and 1099 and then sign it.”

    But this isn’t just an idea floated by senators and presidential advisers. While running for president, then-Sen. Barack Obama touted it during a 2007 speech at the Tax Policy Institute: “The government already collects wage and bank account information,” he said, “so there’s no reason the IRS can’t send Americans pre-filled tax forms to verify.”

    While the notion of allowing government to encroach on yet another aspect of our lives might sound like a hard sell, members of the Computer and Communications Industry Association (CCIA) believe this is a very real threat.

    “There is a fundamental conflict of interest if the tax collectors also become the tax preparer,” said CCIA President and CEO Ed Black. “If you don’t trust the fox to guard your hen house, why trust the IRS to do your taxes. It’s the same exact thing. They make it sound so convenient, but it’s really just a convenient way to kiss your deductions and tax credits goodbye.”

    Black is among the increasing number of voices who worry the “super committee” might see this as a quick way to raise taxes by $345 billion per year – the amount of the “tax gap” – without a single member of Congress ever having to vote for a tax increase.
    What could possibly go wrong?
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #58

    Sep 7, 2011, 08:06 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Speaking of the new super congress and taxes, how about letting the IRS do your taxes for you?
    What could possibly go wrong?
    Nothing. It's a form with pre-filled info that you can edit. Many companies and schools do this.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #59

    Sep 7, 2011, 08:12 AM
    the “super committee” might see this as a quick way to raise taxes by $345 billion per year – the amount of the “tax gap” – without a single member of Congress ever having to vote for a tax increase.
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    What could possibly go wrong?
    Hello again, Steve:

    I'm not sure what you're saying... Are you saying that the super committee can make all the CUTS they want WITHOUT a vote, and that's FINE with you?? But, let 'em raise taxes, and YOU want it VOTED on??

    That ain't right.

    Excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #60

    Sep 7, 2011, 08:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Nothing. It's a form with pre-filled info that you can edit. Many companies and schools do this.
    Nothing? If the IRS is going to fill out my form for me they just can just do the work also and send me the check. Are you nuts, letting the IRS do your taxes? That's insane.

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