[tomder55]

Tal you are a one trick pony.
Here's a hint... business owners are not in business to create jobs. Jobs are the residuals. Business owners take the risks of owning a business to make money. And yes they should own the risk just like they should own the profit . You continue to think they owe you a living . The more government piles on them the less likely they are to take the risks... that's the facts Jack .

Time after time this nonsense of pump priming has failed to bring desired results and yet the lefts answer is to double down on failure . Where did the almost $ trillion in stimulus go ? Why should we believe a failed policy in 2009-10 will work any better in 2012 ?

There is only one tax discussion worthy of having ,and that's a total reform of the tax code ,to simplify it ,reduce rates and eliminate loop holes. Raising and lowering of rates is nonsense because the rates are warped . I guarantee a reform of the tax code is the stimulus everyone is looking for.

[talaniman]

Then lets stop calling business men the job creators, (Republicans words not mine) and put the money where the people get something for it. Fat cat taxes get nothing, and having certainty is a crock of crap because there is no guarantees to THEM making money, so they can lose some tax loopholes and pay taxes.

Last I checked, businesses wanted cheap labor, and tax breaks. Well wages haven't gone up, in 30 years, and they have had tax breaks for a decade. No Tom, that formula ain't worked for us either. Then you talk of government being in the way of them making money, since when did having rules to curb their greediness (a watered down Dodd/Frank bill), or clean air, and water stopping them from making money? How I ask is government in the way? That's a load of bull because they can't do what they want. Even the crap about the Boeing lawsuit is a load of hooey, since they built the thing already and are going to make money off it, for years.

No Tom, I ain't buying none of those talking points because truth be told, big business can make more than they ever made before, and there is absolutely nothing stopping them from expanding, creating demand, and circulating the money so the economy can grow. NOTHING but their own greed.

And I expect nothing free from anyone since I make mine the old fashion honest way, by earning it, and blame no one but myself when I don't. Why can't big business do the same? Why do they have to have slaves to make a buck?

Heck, they don't want you going to a doctor without making a profit off you. You are right though, I am a one trick pony, and I don't like to be cheated, and lied too. Don't try it.

EDITED/

Reforming the tax code is cool, as long as simple means FAIR.

[tomder55]

You don't want fair taxes... you want Robin Hood. Not much to debate when the terminology equates profits with greed.
I just don't see common ground..

[excon]

Where did the almost $ trillion in stimulus go ? Why should we believe a failed policy in 2009-10 will work any better in 2012 ?

Hello again, tom:

Because it didn't fail.. It just wasn't big enough. In the first place HALF of it was made up of tax cuts, so they didn't stimulate anything... The other half turned around the tremendous job loss that was happening when Obama took office...

Then the Republican onslaught against organized labor resulted in million of teachers, firemen, and other public service workers losing their jobs. They destroyed whatever progress we were making.

excon

[tomder55]

Ex you are just describing history repeating itself. I heard the same argument by Keynesians who say Roosevelt's New Deal failed because it wasn't big enough .
The truth is that it's never big enough; because it's fundamentally flawed ;because it presumes that government is the job creator. Order more asphalt.. that'll turn it around. Good thing there are infrastructure repairs needed with all these hurricanes. Yeah that's the ticket.

[talaniman]

you don't want fair taxes ...you want Robin Hood. Not much to debate when the terminology equates profits with greed.
I just don't see common ground ..

Fair as in my 33% regular contribution on my wages should be matched by HIS 33% regular contribution on his wages, or I guess that's not fair huh, since he doesn't contribute as regularly as I do, or at the same rate. Why do you equate taxes with Robin Hood, it ain't Robin Hood when I pay mine??

[excon]

Who in their right mind actually believes that the way to get out of debt is to spend more money?

Hello again, tom:

That's YOUR objective.. Mine would be to grow the economy and when that happens, we can pay off the debt.. Who, in their right minds lays off teachers when the education of our youth is plummeting??

excon

[talaniman]

Who in their right mind actually believes that the way to get out of debt is to spend more money?

The way to get out of debt is to EARN more money, and have a reasonable plan to pay bills. Or file for bankruptcy, and start all over with a lower credit leverage.

If your car broke down and you couldn't get to work you wouldn't quit would you? No, you would borrow the money to fix it, and pay it back. Its not easy, but do able.

Repubs say cut poor people to pay the debt, I say raise taxes to pay it. But then again a poor guy deserves nothing and rich guys deserve all they can make.

They didn't pay slaves either.

[talaniman]

Ex you are just describing history repeating itself. I heard the same argument by Keynesians who say Roosevelt's New Deal failed because it wasn't big enough .
The truth is that it's never big enough; because it's fundamentally flawed ;because it presumes that government is the job creator. Order more asphalt ..that'll turn it around. Good thing there are infrastructure repairs needed with all these hurricanes. Yeah that's the ticket.

Bridges have been crumbling for decades and the bill to fix them was fillibustered, and is till in the Senate. And the new deal didn't fail, and it wasn't big enough. Repubs watered that down and blocked it too. History repeats itself, and since you learned nothing from it, we get the same results, a stunted half arse recovery.

For once can't you guys get out of the way with the no we can't gloom and doom?

No wonder guys like Slick Rick, and his $7.50 job creation impresses you guys.

[tomder55]

Show me one example where Keynesian pump priming was big enough. That is doesn't work because it wasn't big enough is the constant complaint of the left. They won't admit their assumption is wrong.

Tal as you know I would be very happy with a flat rate. But that isn't the lib argument. They say the rich don't pay their fair share when they already pay by far the vast majority of Federal Revenues.

[talaniman]

The rich have lawyers, accountants, lobbyist, and all kinds of resources, why are you defending them? Let them defend themselves why don't you, as I don't understand why hard working repubs such as yourself worry so much about what rich guys make, I don't get it.

[tomder55]

I understand the lib philosophy perfectly. Rob Peter to pay Paul because there are more Pauls than Peters. The problem is there is no sating that attitude. The President has already redefined downward what it is to be rich because he knows the rich don't have enough to pay for his ambitions.
Even then there would be a thin case for it if anyone could demonstrate a Keynesian success.

[talaniman]

You didn't answer my question, Why defend the rich when they have the resources to defend themselves?

After every depression or recession, they still are rich, so what's with this robbing somebody stuff? They screw themselves with messing up the economy we suffer, so how are they getting robbed? Forget Keynes, he didn't rob anybody either.

What we got to beg the rich to have a few bucks or what?

[smoothy]

How about blaming this on the half of the population who are leaches... they pay no taxes yet are quick to line up to suck at the puplic tit.

Make them pay their fair share... (which is the SAME percentage anyone else has to pay of their income). Take away the handouts for the terminally lazy... and see if deficits disappear in a hurry.

[excon]

Hello again:

Smoothy laid out the Republican position perfectly... Don't tax the rich. Tax the poor.

No wonder we're going to hell.

excon

[paraclete]

No wonder we're going to hell.

excon

Yes going to hell in a handcart

[smoothy]

Hello again:

Smoothy laid out the Republican position perfectly... Don't tax the rich. Tax the poor.

No wonder we're going to hell.

excon

We are going to hell in a hurry because HALF the population don't think they should contribute at all... and they think half that does isn't paying enough (talk about hypocrits)... and the half that actually IS footing the bills are sick and fed up with it... and THAT is why the economy is where it is.

Welfare states never work... thats why California is so much worse off than many other states... in fact Socialism hasn't worked anyplace in history.

Why bust your butt if your money goes to pay the lazy bum next door to sit on his butt and breed the neighborhood welfare queens.

[excon]

We are going to hell in a hurry because HALF the population don't think they should contribute at all...

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm not into giving people a free lunch either, and certainly there are SOME of those...

But, as I have corrected you before, what you're saying is just NOT SO! The BULK of the 47% of the people you're talking about, DO contribute just like YOU and I do. True, the don't pay income taxes, but they pay PLENTY of federal taxes where most of the federal budget is derived... Just to list a few taxes they pay: Payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, Medicare taxes, federal telephone taxes, federal gasoline taxes, federal excise taxes, and they pay plenty of state taxes too, like sales tax, cigarette tax, beer tax, highway tax, car tab fees, drivers license fees, and I could go on and on... Yup. Looks like they contribute to ME.

So, if you want to repeat right wing talking points, be prepared to BACK them up...

excon

[talaniman]

We are going to hell in a hurry because HALF the population don't think they should contribute at all....and they think half that does isn't paying enough (talk about hypocrits)....and the half that actually IS footing the bills are sick and fed up with it....and THAT is why the economy is where it is.

Welfare states never work....thats why California is so much worse off than many other states....in fact Socialism hasn't worked anyplace in history.

Why bust your butt if your money goes to pay the lazy bum next door to sit on his butt and breed the neighborhood welfare queens.

Okay I'll bite, how much should a $19,000 (The per capita income of TEXAS), family of FOUR, be expected pay in income taxes?

[NeedKarma]

We are going to hell in a hurry because HALF the population don't think they should contribute at all....and they think half that does isn't paying enough (talk about hypocrits)....and the half that actually IS footing the bills are sick and fed up with it....and THAT is why the economy is where it is.

Welfare states never work....thats why California is so much worse off than many other states....in fact Socialism hasn't worked anyplace in history.

Why bust your butt if your money goes to pay the lazy bum next door to sit on his butt and breed the neighborhood welfare queens.

You guys have a 50% employment rate??