[tomder55]

Your problem is that you continue to believe the government can solve this... Unleasing the entrepreneurial spirit can solve it. Scanners in grocery stores are not the problem. Before the current economic downturn the US unemployment rate was statistically at full employment and we were accepting millions of legal and illegal immigrants into the country to fill the labor needs ;even as we were importing products for sale .
So it's a real stretch to say that innovation is a problem. I think it's a job creator .

[paraclete]

Tom the problem is the reliance on a low labour cost economy. The reality is they keep replacing those low paid jobs with automation and the result is a poorly performing economy because no one has any spending power. You are discounting the impact of a credit squeeze and currency values. Certain important industries are under performing and may never perform in the way they did in the past because structural change is taking place. Rose coloured glasses won't solve the problem, we are all starting to see a double dip recession. Governments have to provide the environment and the usual methods aren't working because the tools are compromised. You should be aware that those good times owed a lot to various forms of government led stimulation

[excon]

Tom the problem is the reliance on a low labour cost economy. the reality is they keep replacing those low paid jobs with automation and the result is a poorly performing economy because no one has any spending power.

Hello clete:

The wrong headed assumption you make is that the displaced workers go on welfare for ever... Plus, you assume the workers that are replaced ARE low wage workers... They're not. Consider that robots replaced HIGHLY paid auto workers..

But, as I said earlier... Increasing productivity BOOSTS EVERYBODY'S standard of living... That's WHERE the increases in our living standard COMES from. It's the ONLY place. Where do you think wealth comes from?

excon

[tomder55]

Nobody has any spending power ? The poor in this economy own the most sophisticated electronics. Why ? Because automation did drive down the costs of goods. The double dip you are seeing is Keynesian economics repeating itself.

[paraclete]

But, as I said earlier... Increasing productivity BOOSTS EVERYBODY'S standard of living... That's WHERE the increases in our living standard COMES from. It's the ONLY place. Where do you think wealth comes from??

excon

Tell me Ex, if you can, did replacing auto workers with robots provide you with a cheaper car? What happened to those industries that went down that path? I seem to remember a recent bail out. According to your theory the plants should have been able to keep going because their productivity made them wealthy. Your simplistic approach to economics doesn't solve the problems and you can shout all you like.

A high standard of living and wealth existed before today's innovation. It is not dependent upon automation.

[excon]

Tell me Ex, if you can, did replacing auto workers with robots provide you with a cheaper car?

Hello again, clete:

If you call a car that lasts 250,000 miles vs one that barely gets 100,000 CHEAPER, then YES, innovation DID provide me with a cheaper car - about TWICE as cheap.

excon

[paraclete]

Hello again, clete:

If you call a car that lasts 250,000 miles vs one that barely gets 100,000 CHEAPER, then YES, innovation DID provide me with a cheaper car - bout TWICE as cheap.

excon

I wasn't asking you about quality, ex, There is no doubt that today's vehicle is better because of innovation but whether it lasts longer or not, you don't spend any less to put it on the road. Where I come from car prices have remained static for a long time but wages have moved. Certain factors are in play which has more to do with currency values and competition than it has to do with wages and productivity. There is a down side to this too

You think having cheap consumer goods flood the market is a good thing no matter where they come from, but the reality is, when they are imported, it is at the expense of some local job. A lot of garbage is thrown in the air to make them but you don't care, it is someoneelse's air. Truth is; your economy is as bankrupt as your ideas.

[excon]

You think having cheap consumer goods flood the market is a good thing no matter where they come from

Hello again, clete:

I have NEVER said one word about "cheap consumer goods", or whether I think they're GOOD for our economy. I've simply said that increased productivity raises the standard of living for everybody... That is just economic FACT.

However, deserting your factory HERE for one over THERE just to get cheap labor is NOT innovation.

excon

[tomder55]

Certain factors are in play which has more to do with currency values and competition than it has to do with wages and productivity.

yup

Truth is; your economy is as bankrupt as your ideas.

nope the fallacy is the free trade is one sided. While we dither and renage on deals that were negotiated with Latin American countries ,the Canadians are cashing in and creating jobs with the same nations the Obots won't deal with.

I can't believe you... it's not like you Aussies don't take advantage of cheap imports . Properly negotiated ,free trade is beneficial to both or all countries involved.

[paraclete]

I can't believe you ...it's not like you Aussies don't take advantage of cheap imports . Properly negotiated ,free trade is beneficial to both or all countries involved.

Yes Tom most of my clothes were made in China, why, because my local shops don't stock anything else, but my car is locally assembled, which means I didn't opt for the cheaper alternative. I'm a beneficiary of Ex's longer lasting car because local manufacturers were forced to compete in that free trade environment. I also buy chinese computers because that is where they are made. Much cheaper now they are not made in the USA. I haven't seen too much benefit flowing our way from free trade agreements though, very easy to overcome them by lowering the value of your currency. What I have observed is a surge of US vehicles and US advertising diluting our culture because the free trade agreement prevents us from insisting strongly on local content. We had a good growing local film industry before the FTA. Don't tell me FTA's are beneficial to both countries because we know different, that is not their intent.

[tomder55]

Funny how you think poorly made dystopian films made in the Outback as a 'good growing local film industry '.Your best actors directors and producers were always going to leave for the better money of Hollywood.

[paraclete]

Funny how you think poorly made dystopian films made in the Outback as a 'good growing local film industry '.Your best actors directors and producers were always going to leave for the better money of Hollywood.

I find it difficult to know what you are talking about. There have been some well known feature films made here including Star Wars and Mission Impossible. What I'm talking about is the local television industry which has been flooded with yank crap since the FTA. If talent wants to go to Hollywood and the UK, that is something we are used to, but they come back when it suits them, because their money is worth more here. Our talent has enriched your film industry for a long time now.

[speechlesstx]

And here I thought it was ATMs putting people out of work. Automation may cause some to lose jobs, but it also creates jobs. It takes people to create, make, sale, install and maintain all the new stuff.

[phillysteakandcheese]

If I have to bag may own groceries, I want a discount...

I used to feel the same way about pumping my own gas...

Won't be long before I have no choice in the matter.

[paraclete]

If I have to bag may own groceries, I want a discount...

.

All you are entitled to are price rises