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southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Are we really getting so damned literal that you guys can't understand "they" to mean only the Islamic terrorists I'm referring to? Really?

I don't mean to put you in a corner here, but I just want to point out the distinction that we should be making here.

You said yourself that their excuse is their religion tells them to kill us. Do you ACCEPT that excuse?

What I'm saying is that I DON'T accept that. I KNOW that MOST Muslims are peaceful, I KNOW that their religion does NOT demand they kill us.

Just as you DON'T accept that Breivik is Christian, and I DON'T accept that anything he did was truly in the name of Christian culture, morals, or God... I DON'T accept that Al-Qaeda are Islamic...

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by southamerica

Steve, a Jihad is an inner struggle of spiritual man against his human self.

Once again, jahidists are just manipulating the word for their evil.

I know all of this, I've been around a while.

But really, there have been TONS of Christian terrorists... we can start with the crusades, move over to India, and then to Northern Ireland, take a stop in Kansas, and then head on over to Norway. I missed A LOT in there.

Today, list all the known Christian terrorists operating today. The Crusades are irrelevant, the last known crusade ended around 1434, 577 years ago.

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Always?

excon

Yes sir. In spite of all the efforts to portray me as having never done so, I always have.

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Today, list all the known Christian terrorists operating today. The Crusades are irrelevant, the last known crusade ended around 1434, 577 years ago.

That would take research on my end as I don't keep up with the names or operations of Christian terrorists any more than I do Islamic terrorists.

If I were to do that research and come up with my list, and yours were bigger... what conclusion would you draw, and where would it take this debate/conversation?

excon · Jul 28, 2011, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Today, list all the known Christian terrorists operating today.

Hello again, Steve:

I can't. But, I betcha Homeland Security can. And, I betcha there's LOTS of them. Surly, you don't doubt that there ARE Christian terrorists... Or, maybe you do.

See... Here's my problem... Frankly, I think there are MANY right wing militias - SOME of which are planning violence upon our country, and whose members HAPPEN to BE Christian... I'll bet some of them even PRAY a LOT too, and maybe wear crosses on their camo's. Given your definition of Muslim terrorism, seems to me these groups could be called Christian terrorists.

But, calling them Christian terrorists would BLIND us to who the REAL terrorists are - kind of like what YOU do with Muslims... That blindness has caused two, maybe three, noooo, four - Ok, FIVE wars to have been started by us.

excon

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by excon

See... Here's my problem... Frankly, I think there are MANY right wing militias, SOME of which are planning violence upon our country

I hope you're wrong :(

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by southamerica

I don't mean to put you in a corner here, but I just want to point out the distinction that we should be making here.

You said yourself that their excuse is their religion tells them to kill us. Do you ACCEPT that excuse?

I didn't say it was an excuse, with Islamic terrorists it's their motivation.

What I'm saying is that I DON'T accept that. I KNOW that MOST Muslims are peaceful, I KNOW that their religion does NOT demand they kill us.

Agreed.

Just as you DON'T accept that Breivik is Christian, and I DON'T accept that anything he did was truly in the name of Christian culture, morals, or God... I DON'T accept that Al-Qaeda are Islamic...

OK, maybe they aren't true Muslims, I'm not a Muslim so I'm in no position to make that judgment. I can't say whether someone is or isn't a Christian either. I can say the Phelps behavior is not Christian.

My question to you is, why is it virtually every Christian denomination, group and individual is quick to denounce any atrocity and distance themselves from any that sully the name of our God, but you don't see many Muslims jumping to denounce terror done in the name of their god? Where are all those moderate Muslims?

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 09:00 AM

I actually don't know a lot of Muslims, and I know our media wouldn't give the denouncing Muslims airtime.

I have read a couple autobiographies/biographies (3 cups of tea and In the Land of Invisible Women stick out for this). I'm only taking the author's word for it, but in 3 Cups of Tea, the Muslims in Pakistan spat at the Afghan border because of the 9/11 attacks. They called Osama bin Laden an abomination. The author said that all of the tribesmen and Pakistani men and a couple Afghan men on the other border were disgusted with ObL and Al-Qaeda, and supported America.

So... I don't know, maybe we don't hear about it because no one gives those people airtime, or we don't KNOW those people.

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by excon

I can't.

I can do my part, why can't you list any?

But, I betcha Homeland Security can.

Oh yeah, they've already put out their right-wing warning remember? The Obama administration jumped into the fear-mongering with both feet early on.

excon · Jul 28, 2011, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Where are all those moderate Muslims?

Hello again, Steve:

How many would satisfy you? How hard to you look for them? You DO know that most Christians have radios and can read... You DO know that most Muslims don't.

If the point you're trying to make, is that because you don't HEAR an outcry, means (1) there isn't one, which, of course, means (2) they SUPPORT the terrorists... If THAT'S your point, I think you're dead wrong...

But, EVEN if there wasn't one word of denunciation... It means NOTHING... I certainly don't denounce every wrong that people who look like me perpetrate. That does NOT mean I support them.

excon

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by southamerica

I actually don't know a lot of Muslims, and I know our media wouldn't give the denouncing Muslims airtime.

Oh they would give them air time, if more Muslims would do so the media could stop being apologists for Islam and let them speak for themselves. Look, I'm not saying Muslims haven't spoke out, some have. All should. If they are troubled by terror done in their name they would speak as Christians do when someone inevitably links us to some atrocity. What the Oslo monster did is appalling, we pray for and sympathize with the victims, and we denounce it in the strongest terms.

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by excon

If the point you're trying to make, is that because you don't HEAR an outcry, means (1) there isn't one, which, of course, means (2) they SUPPORT the terrorists... If THAT'S your point, I think you're dead wrong...

Read my last post and stop guessing what I mean.

But, EVEN if there wasn't one word of denunciation... It means NOTHING... I certainly don't denounce every wrong that people who look like me perpetrate. That does NOT mean I support them.

Maybe that's because no one is trying to unfairly link to you any atrocity. The left and their media sympathizers are quick to apologize for Islam and quicker to blame Christians and conservatives for any evil before any evidence is in to support it. The guy in Kentucky that killed himself, the Tucson shooter, the Oslo killings, the Tiller Killer, the debt discussions... anything and everything is blamed on us, most of the time without merit. If you were blamed for everything evil under the sun unfairly you'd change your tune.

P.S. Heck, we probably killed Amy Winehouse, too

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Oh they would give them air time, if more Muslims would do so the media could stop being apologists for Islam and let them speak for themselves. Look, I'm not saying Muslims haven't spoke out, some have. All should. If they are troubled by terror done in their name they would speak as Christians do when someone inevitably links us to some atrocity. What the Oslo monster did is appalling, we pray for and sympathize with the victims, and we denounce it in the strongest terms.

It might not be fair to compare how a Christian reacts to how a Muslim reacts. Two extremely different cultures.

Just look at how Japan and USA differ in how they remember Pearl Harbor/Hiroshima.

excon · Jul 28, 2011, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

If you were blamed for everything evil under the sun unfairly you'd change your tune.

Hey Steve:

I'm a Jew.

excon

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:
You DO know that most Christians have radios and can read... You DO know that most Muslims don't.

Excellent point. Much of the Middle Eastern countries severely underfund their education systems, and those that are funded are funded BY extremist groups. (My source is, again, 3 Cups of Tea)

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hey Steve:

I'm a Jew.

I get it, but who is blaming Jews for things such as I mentioned?

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by excon

I'm a Jew.

Name ONE instance that your people were blamed for something and massively prosecuted for it.

Oh, wait...

speechlesstx · Jul 28, 2011, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by southamerica

It might not be fair to compare how a Christian reacts to how a Muslim reacts. Two extremely different cultures.

Just look at how Japan and USA differ in how they remember Pearl Harbor/Hiroshima.

People are people. Muslims in the west have no excuse for not being quick to denounce terror in their name.

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I get it, but who is blaming Jews for things such as I mentioned?

Maybe I need some help with the "things such as I mentioned" portion of your question. Do you mean linking Jews with terrorism?

I'm sure you don't mean linking Jews to atrocities. Just in the last centuries, Jews have been blamed for major wars, failed economies, and banker take-overs. That doesn't even go into the more ancient prosecution of Jews.

southamerica · Jul 28, 2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

People are people. Muslims in the west have no excuse for not being quick to denounce terror in their name.

True, I can't recall hearing about a big denunciation of Al-Qaeda by any Muslims.

I've had a friend from Pakistan denounce Islam because of Al-Qaeda. But he's the only Muslim friend I've had...