[JudyKayTee]

Hi again c___l,

Once a file is destroyed it is completely sealed off from anyone and everyone, unless you reoffend.

The nice lady at the desk lied to you. The record, destroyed or not, is NOT sealed "off" from anyone and everyone. Her statement, in fact, does not make sense. It is destroyed... but magically reappears if you reoffend? Not true.

I actually worked the Border. Your record is visible to the Government.

I realize this has gone on forever with more than one point of view and perhaps it's time to end the thread, wait to see what happens when someone applies for employment or attempts to cross the Border.

[c___l]

Hey xsosorry,

Just wanted to update you on what's been going on with my criminal record checks, just so I don't leave anybody hanging.
I went to the police services for a fingerprint check. Two weeks later, they sent me back a report saying that there was a "negative" police check, meaning that nothing showed up when they ran my name for every category. I was SO relieved, because I really thought that they'd attach a report stating the charges I've had.

What I'm wondering now is if nothing really showed up on my check, or if the police were just being extra nice that day and didn't want to include it in the check. Is there any way I can get a copy of what's on my criminal record from the police?

[xsosorry]

Hey c___l,

That's awesome news! Congrats! I'm happy for you, and I'm happy to hear that. I am wondering though, if what you received was just a criminal record check and not a police record check? I'm hoping it was a police record check. To answer your question, I read somewhere in the millions of websites I've looked at that copies of police incident reports (arrests etc) are typically not released. I believe you can go to the station and request one, but if it is released at all, it will only be released to you (and of course, should something happen again, to the courts)

[JudyKayTee]

You can get your own records. For that matter someone representing you, signed authorization in hand, can get your records.

[xsosorry]

Hey c___l,

Yesterday I was informed that I will enter a diversion program for my charges. After doing some more research (worrying about this is a full time job for me lol) nothing was really clear. I have read that charges that are dealt with via alternative measures are not entered into the CPIC (which makes sense, isn't the point of a diversion to deal with it outside of the court system?) - I have also read that information regarding arrests and charges ARE entered into the CPIC (as a "withdrawn charge", I would assume). All very confusing. What's even more confusing is what happens to the fingerprints/photographs if a diversion is not entered into the CPIC- is this still available to the US border (ultimately revealing your diverted charges), even if nothing would show up on a 4-level criminal record check in Canada? The worst part is, no one- not even the experts- seem to be able to give me a clear answer.

Regarding file destruction, I have read that you must wait 2 years for the destruction of local police records (and I'm assuming fingerprints and photographs as well) after a diversion- I have also read and had various lawyers tell me 6 months, 5 months, 1 month. Express Pardons told me to "wait a year or two" when I called them.

Regarding a vulnerable sector search, I have found out (according to the respective police service websites) that diversions are NOT included on a VSS (Waterloo Police), and that they are included on a VSS but only as "police contact" (Hamilton Police).

Let me know how your file destruction works out- we're in the same boat now, only you're a few steps ahead of me lol.

[JudyKayTee]

I am former US Customs - NOTHING is removed from a person's police record when it comes to the "Feds," and that includes diversion. The purpose of diversion is not to allow people to cross the Border. It IS to allow people to continue with their lives when the Government is not involved.

For that matter if you receive Canadian diversion you cannot pass a background check for a Government job.

The US cares that you were charged, not the disposition of the charges.

[xsosorry]

Hi Judy,

I'm not trying to be rude, but in all of your replies you have stated the fact that you are ex-US customs. That's great. However, the laws in Canada and the US are different. You can, in fact, have your police records removed if you are not convicted. It is called a file destruction or record purge. ALL information is removed from the RCMP records (the CPIC- charges, arrests, non-conviction records), and your local records and courts records are "destroyed". I doubt they are actually destroyed (as you mentioned, if everyone had their non-conviction records destroyed, everyone would be a first time offender), but they are sealed, and the only person who has access to them is the police. However, I have been informed by my lawyer, various other criminal defence lawyers and criminal law websites that some police services will invite you and/or your lawyer to witness the destruction of your file. The non-conviction record will no longer be released to anyone (aside from the police, and the courts if you end up back there), even government agencies. Of course, your application for destruction can be rejected depending on the nature of your charges. This is why pardon agencies suggest receiving a pardon or file destruction before trying to cross the border- after they are completed, as long as you have not made the DHS aware of your record beforehand, nothing is available to them.

Like I said, not trying to be rude, and I am most definitely not an expert, but most of your advice relates to American law and does not pertain to.

[JudyKayTee]

I guess when you post 34,000 times you repeat yourself.

US Customs works with Canadian Customs.

You seem to know how crossing the Border works so proceed with your plans, come back and let AMHD know how it worked out for you.

Just so I understand - you have been told that destroying your records (in your presence and the presence of your Attorney) means that all computer records on all systems are also removed?

Oh, when people crossing into Canada were turned around, I'm the one who was standing there when they crossed back checking their paperwork. When people crossing into the US were turned around - likewise.

[c___l]

Hi there xsosorry,

I'm very happy to hear that you're able to receive a diversion for your charge! That must be very relieving to know. Now that you can have a diversion, the charges will be "withdrawn".

I've been told that withdrawn charges or charges dealt with through "diversion" are also a police contact in Hamilton. However, I'm not sure why my police check was "negative". I really want to know if the police officers were just being nice, or if there really is nothing that they found. If they weren't able to find anything regarding my charge, that basically means that nothing was entered into the CPIC, and perhaps the border will not see this information (though I'm probably wrong).

My police check that I received was a "police information check", since the vulnerable sector screening wasn't able to be given to me, since it was only for people ages 21+. However, the police information check includes the same things, just not the "pardoned sex offenders" section, so any charges that were withdrawn, etc could be seen.

As of now, I haven't heard back from the police in my region regarding the file destruction. I sent the application around 3 weeks ago. I contacted an officer from the Toronto Police Services (where I applied for file destruction), and they said usually a reply through the mail would be sent within 4 weeks telling you if you've been accepted for file destruction or not, and the complete process will take approximately a year for completion. This worries me because I'm going to be travelling this summer for my aunt's wedding, and need to cross the border. I'm afraid of what will show up, because I don't know exactly what's on my record. I probably need to go to the police station this summer and request for my record. Do you know if this could be given to you on the same day, or do I have to wait again?

Good luck on everything xsosorry!

[ScottGem]

This has gone on too long. It doesn't matter what country you are in but records that show someone was guilty are NEVER destroyed. They may be sealed but not destroyed. I cannot imagine fingerprint records ever being destroyed, the reason the fingerprints were taken may be hidden but not their existence. If a law enforcement agency does a fingerprint check to establish an identity, they WILL show up.

The purpose of the Canadian diversion program is to give first time offenders a break by sealing their records from any non law enforcement inquiry.

To c____l, you committed a crime, you went through the diversion program, your records will not show the crime unless the inquiry is done from a law enforcement or national security viewpoint. So deal with it and stop stressing about. There is NOTHING you can do now that the record is in the system.

[Fr_Chuck]

Closed, too many posts on same subject, in violation of site rules

[Fr_Chuck]

Closed this is a 4 year old thread.