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infoguy · Jul 11, 2011, 10:49 PM

This is not a technical question, but a procedural business question. I have a Kenmore front loading washing machine, model 417.44042400, purchased in 2004. It just failed, with much banging and clattering. After diagnostic disassembly, I found out that the inner tub rear three spoke mount (some call it a spider) disintegrated. The inner tub had an extended warranty on it, of 25 years, of which only 7 years have passed. I took the washer completely apart myself, and noted each resultant part failure, such as the fact that when the rear tub mount failed, the inner tub was allowed to run on an eccentric axis, inflicting severe interrior damage to the rear housing, and serously stressing the rear integral bearing. Sears (Kenmore) told me that I would have to PAY for a service call ($129), and let the service man decide whether it is a warranty issue. But I do ALL my own work, whether it is automotive, appliance, electrical, electronic, mechnical, electromechanical, chemical, or building modification! I don't feel that I should have to PAY anything at all, to get a defective (but warranteed) part replacement IF I am doing all the work to eliminate labor charges! I simply REFUSE to pay over $500 in parts cost out of my pocket because a part that has a 25 year warranty failed after less than 1/3 of its expected life, virtually destroying my appliance on its way out! There MUST be a way to force Sears to wave the $129 charge, for which I would never be repaid!

If anyone is interested in what manner of failure my washing machine underwent, you can go to the following website and watch the posted video here:

Why Kenmore Front Load Washers Fail|ApplianceJournal.com

twinkiedooter · Jul 12, 2011, 08:57 AM

You've got to play by their rules when it comes to getting free anything. If you are too cheap to pay for a service call, then why don't you just buy the part yourself and quitcherb*tchin. You can't force Sears to waive the service call.

Which is cheaper? The parts cost or the service fee? Take your choice.

And you possibly may have voided your own warranty by doing all this investigative diagnosis yourself. Warranties are for the unit NOT for the part within the unit.

twinkiedooter · Jul 12, 2011, 09:13 AM

The inner tub is what had the extended warranty on it. This means it's not going to rust, chip, etc. this does NOT mean anything other than the inner tub PERIOD. You are reading way too much into what an extended warranty means or what you think it means.

Either buy the parts yourself and fix it yourself or buy a different washing machine. You can get a very nice model for much less than $500 new. And be sure to question the place where you buy it exactly WHAT is covered by the warranty. This way you will know that it's just the tub itself and NOT the rest of the unit is covered. Be sure to read all your fine print next time so you won't make this mistake again.

I like to play doitmyself as well but sometimes I win and sometimes they win. So far I win with my refrigerator replacing the evaporator fan versus call a service guy to do the same thing. I buy my parts online with a one year part guarantee and even got a new motor when one only lasted 9 months!

Unfortunately you lose this time as I don't envision you winning in court with Sears. They have a lot more money than you do and hire the best attorneys to represent them in small claim suits like this would turn out to be.

The older washers can sometimes outlast the newer washers. The more bells and whistles the appliance has the shorter the life of the appliance is almost guaranteed. I always buy plain Jane models so they are easy to fix myself.

Watched the video and came to the crashing conclusion Kenmore made a crappy machine. Would suggest you buy a different brand of washer next time as Kenmore obviously messed up with this design. Just chalk it up to a lesson learned in life. I have a 9 y/o Whirlpool plain jane top loader that has not caused me problem one for years. Many years ago my mom had a front loader and that machine was nothing but trouble. They can't seem to make a good front loader machine.

infoguy · Jul 12, 2011, 09:59 AM

Twinkiedooter, thank you for posting your opinion about my situation. However, the 25 year waranteed TUB is EXACTLY what failed! My evidence is, the TUB is SOLD ONLY as a complete unit, with the rear spider (three spoke gizmo with center shaft) ATTACHED! The so-called spider is not available separately! I am sure that was planned so that no one could buy just the cheaply made failed part, but would be forced to buy the complete assembly, including the expensive stainless steel tub, to which the spider is bolted with six bolts! So, you are wrong this time! I WILL WIN this one against Sears, and the only question right now is, exactly what procedures to follow, to accomplish that. I do appreciate your good faith response!

ma0641 · Jul 12, 2011, 11:10 AM

If you read the fine print you will find out that labor is not included. I just had to have a 3 yr old motor replaced. Motor cost $500, labor was $100. Worth it.

infoguy · Jul 12, 2011, 04:18 PM

ma0641, thank you for your response and opinion on this matter. Whether Sears pays for labor or not is of little interest to me, since I would actually prefer to put it back together myself anyway. All I want, is to find a way to get the ONLY PART in my machine that has a 25 year warranty (the stainless steel tub).. . Replaced without ANY monetary outlay from me whatsoever! Why should I have to PAY somebody.. . ANYBODY.. . So that I could get a replacement for THAT ONE FAILED PART exchanged for a new one, just as its indivdual warranty states? I might feel differently about it, if the service people would guarantee their work by covering the entire washer (parts AND labor) for a full year from the date of the repair, which would cover any possible screw-ups by the service people, and possible consequental damages due to defective new parts and/or poor workmanship!

ma0641 · Jul 12, 2011, 06:32 PM

I think you are beating your head on this one. Or as Hamlet said "to suffer the slings and arrows... etc...

Fr_Chuck · Jul 12, 2011, 07:03 PM

They will not replace it, without a authorized service center doing the evaluation and asking for the part. Thus the way warranty works,

Try calling up Ford motor company and telling them a part is bad and just mail it to your home, They may not laugh on the phone but they would laugh.

To get a warranty you have to go to the shop.

If you go to the store that sold it to you and it is a smaller private shop, normally they will do the service as a FREE service, but the larger shops like sears and others will require a paid service call.

For example, the medical products we sell, if you get something fixed under warranty, the factory sends us the part free, but our company just loses the labor we do, thus the reason we will not do warranty service on anything that we don't sell.

So you will not get this fixed without a service call, unless perhaps you see if you can take the part to the service center in person and show the shop manager.

But again, most warranties require that all warranty work be performed by a authorized person

twinkiedooter · Jul 12, 2011, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by infoguy

Twinkiedooter, thank you for posting your opinion about my situation. However, the 25 year waranteed TUB is EXACTLY what failed! My evidence is, the TUB is SOLD ONLY as a complete unit, with the rear spider (three spoke gizmo with center shaft) ATTACHED! The so-called spider is not available separately! I am sure that was planned so that no one could buy just the cheaply made failed part, but would be forced to buy the complete assembly, including the expensive stainless steel tub, to which the spider is bolted with six bolts! So, you are wrong this time! I WILL WIN this one against Sears, and the only question right now is, exactly what procedures to follow, to accomplish that. I do appreciate your good faith response!

Honey, tub and spider assembly are two different items.

I've talked to many a professional repairperson in my time and one time when I was at a friend's house while her front loader was being worked on I spoke to the kindly repairperson. He told me that front loaders are always trouble and once he's worked on a FL, it seems he's back every other jerk to their house fixing it over and over again. He loved them (income wise) but cautioned me never to fall into the trap of actually buying one. PS He didn't own one and would never buy one for just that reason. They are actually programmed to keep failing over and over.

twinkiedooter · Jul 12, 2011, 07:14 PM

And if you can't get the "Free" part from Sears, what are your damages for a lawsuit pray tell?

Let me guess, you're going to play "repair attorney" and represent yourself on this lawsuit also?

drtom4444 · Jul 13, 2011, 04:15 AM

File a small claims lawsuit against them. I am a law clerk and have written many of these. You don't have lawyers in small claims court, but look at the fine print in the warranty contract because you may agree to pay this charge to claim the warranty. However, AC manufacturers allow you to bring in the compressor under warranty for replacement part as long as the compressor is welded shut. It has to be either an arbitrary policy or in the warranty. You need to find out first. DrTom4444

drtom4444 · Jul 13, 2011, 04:23 AM

Those motors cost about $40-60 and never more purchased at a wholesale house. There are many manufacturers of appliance motors to fit anything. I have never seen a fractional HP motor cost more than $100. DrTom4444

drtom4444 · Jul 13, 2011, 04:37 AM

After looking at this video I can see that the aluminum with stainless steel caused corrosion from electrolysis which is corrosion caused by two dissimilar metals making an electrical connection like aluminum and copper wires. This principle is used in HVAC work when galvanized metal containing zinc is bonded to copper and aluminum coils. Zinc is the most reactive of the three and corrodes until the zinc is all gone then the aluminum corrodes. We now have zinc "eggs" called grenades that we install on pipes as a sacrificial metal to stop corrosion. If you had had a zinc plate bonded to the inside of the washer no corrosion would have occurred, or a spider made from stainless. You would have a very good lawsuit in a class action suit and there are lawyers who take these suits because they earn millions on one lawsuit. DrTom4444

infoguy · Jul 13, 2011, 07:19 AM

[QUOTE=twinkiedooter;2846429]Honey, tub and spider assembly are two different items.

[QUOTE=twinkiedooter;2846429]... it seems he's back every other jerk to their house fixing it over and over again.

Twinkiedooter, thank you, once again, for your opinions on my present situation. In reference to your first quote above (in THIS post), I would love for that statement to be true! Since you obviously have a plethura of experience in appliances, based on your numerous posts in this help forum, I would very much appreciate your backing that statement up with part numbers! As stated in my introduction on this topic (which was the first post in this thread), my FL Kenmore washer is model # 417.44042400. The mfg. year was 2004. As a help to you in that effort, below is a link to Sears Parts Direct, already specifying that model number! That should help you save some time. But of course, you are obvously NOT restricted to only Sears to find such parts!

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/part...od=41744042400

Please advise, the cost (and the EXACT part number) of the spider ALONE, withOUT the stainless steel drum/tub! I have been unable to find that anywhere in the USA so far! If you can actually do that (without me having to pay shipping from outside the United States of America), you would indeed be an exemplary appliance guru!

In reference to your second quote (again, in THIS post), I do not understand the usage or intended meaning of the word, "jerk." Can you please explain that, or correct it using the edit feature on this forum? Thank you, in advance, for honoring that request!

I will be waiting for that part number and price! But the ONLY P/N I was ever provided with for the so-called tub INCLUDED the spider already attached to the stainless steel tub! Therefore, if you do NOT find your statement to be completely correct, could you please post a retraction? Thanks again, Twinkiedooter!

ma0641 · Jul 13, 2011, 09:33 AM

Dr Tom. Sorry for the confusion. I was talking about a multispeed HVAC fan motor for an Amana. I really didn't care what the motor cost since I wasn't paying for it.

drtom4444 · Jul 14, 2011, 02:16 PM

That motor is about $40-50 and never more unless you buy a special brand name motor which is unnecessary since they are all the same. DrTom4444

infoguy · Jul 14, 2011, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by drtom4444

File a small claims lawsuit against them. I am a law clerk and have written many of these. You don't have lawyers in small claims court, but look at the fine print in the warranty contract because you may agree to pay this charge to claim the warranty. However, AC manufacturers allow you to bring in the compressor under warranty for replacement part as long as the compressor is welded shut. It has to be either an arbitrary policy or in the warranty. You need to find out first. DrTom4444

A small claims lawsuit is probably a good idea. Since you have seen similar situations before now, can you tell me how "consequental damages" would be viewed by the court? When my so-called 25-year stainless steel tub assembly (with dissimilar metals attached) failed after about seven years, the rear "spider" broke at two of the three "spokes" (for lack of better terminology). That event inflicted severe damage to the inner surfaces of my outer tub and the rear bearing, due to very bad design. If the so-called 25-year tub had not failed way too early, the consequentally damaged parts would still be usable. That exact scenario can be observed in the video that I linked to in my first post, but must admit that I had nothing to do with creating that very educational video.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 14, 2011, 08:48 PM

Drtom, please stop using the comment feature, if you wish to actually add to the posting, answer the question

infoguy · Jul 15, 2011, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

Honey, tub and spider assembly are two different items. ...

Twinkiedooter, have you made any progress on identifying the part number I could order from Sears (or any other business, anywhere in North America), that would be a direct, bolt-on replacement for the three-spoke "spider" with shaft, that bolts onto the back of my inner tub assembly, in my Kenmore model 417.44042400 front loading washing machine? My laundry is piling up again, and I would order it in a New York minute if I could only find one that cost less than one hundred dollars, delivered!

infoguy · Jul 15, 2011, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

... Warranties are for the unit NOT for the part within the unit.

The link below will launch a search on Google (the largest Internet search engine), and the finds show that the 25-year warranty was on the inner tub only, NOT the whole unit!

kenmore "25 year warranty" ("inner tub" OR "stainless steel tub") - Google Search