[Athos]

There's nothing wrong with the system. It works very well. There was too much circumstantial evidence, and the prosecution went down the wrong path.

There can't be "too much" circumstantial evidence! That's like saying Mozart had "too many" notes in his operas. (Line from AMADEUS)). Doesn't make sense.

What was the "right" path the prosecution should have gone down?

[Aurora_Bell]

Watch... She'll most likely have a made for television movie come out and someone like Jennifer Love Hewitt will play her part. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

Hah! Alty and I were talking about that same thing last night. A book or a made for t.v movie and she will be living large. I totally agree.

There can't be "too much" circumstantial evidence! That's like saying Mozart had "too many" notes in his operas. (Line from AMADEUS)). Doesn't make sense.

I agree, I thought it was because there wasn't enough circumstantial evidence.

[Athos]

She may be guilty, but the prosecution messed up and didn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

They absolutely DID prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem is that the jury was not instructed on what "reasonable doubt" means.

Please advise where the prosecution "messed up".

[Alty]

They absolutely DID prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The problem is that the jury was not instructed on what "reasonable doubt" means.

Please advise where the prosecution "messed up".

Greenie for Athos!

I agree, the prosecution did prove their case, the jury just didn't understand what "reasonable" doubt means.

There was not reasonable doubt! Casey is guilty, beyond a doubt.

[Athos]

Greenie for Athos!

I agree, the prosecution did prove their case, the jury just didn't understand what "reasonable" doubt means.

There was not reasonable doubt! Casey is guilty, beyond a doubt.

Thanks - greenie for you too after reading your take on this in earlier threads.

There's another thread going on with the same players

Current events - "Casey Anthony Goes Free"

[Wondergirl]

There can't be "too much" circumstantial evidence!

Let me rephrase that. There was too much evidence that was circumstantial. None of it could be linked to Casey.

[88sunflower]

Watch... She'll most likely have a made for television movie come out and someone like Jennifer Love Hewitt will play her part. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable!

If any body out there took on this role then shame on them. I just couldn't be paid enough money to even think of it.

[Enigma1999]

If any body out there took on this role then shame on them. I just couldn't be paid enough money to even think of it.

I agree, I wouldn't either.

Unfortunately though, someone would.

[Athos]

Let me rephrase that. There was too much evidence that was circumstantial. None of it could be linked to Casey.

With all due respect, I don't think you understand what "circumstantial evidence" is. In this case, ALL the evidence was circumstantial. There was no "smoking gun". Nobody got up on the witness stand and said, "There she is. She killed Caylee. I saw her".

Trials are commonly conducted without direct evidence. Circumstantial can be just as damning - and sometimes more so since eyewitnesses (a form of direct) are notoriously unreliable. True, this case had no direct evidence, but the circumstances overwhelmingly point to guilt. OVERWHELMINGLY.

The inferences of the events point to one person - and one person only. The mother- Casey Anthony. I can't rehash the whole case here, but Altenweg has given a good summary (others have posted other damning details) of the evidence.

As I've said before, the jury misunderstood its role. Like you, they may have been looking for that smoking gun, and, not finding it, voted for acquittal.

[Wondergirl]

The inferences of the events point to one person - and one person only.

I thought our legal system didn't decide cases on inferences.

[Athos]

I thought our legal system didn't decide cases on inferences.

Then you thought wrong. Circumstantial evidence, by definition, REQUIRES inferences and assumptions.

You're not alone. Most people don't understand what circumstantial evidence is - after several decades of TV Perry Mason stuff where the conclusion is always super-dramatic. Nor do most people understand what "reasonable doubt" means.

That's why it's critical for a Judge to explain these concepts to every sitting jury.

[Wondergirl]

Then you thought wrong. Circumstantial evidence, by definition, REQUIRES inferences and assumptions.

And people who were put in jail for life for murders it was inferred they had done are now able to use DNA (hard) evidence to exonerate themselves.

[Athos]

And people who were put in jail for life for murders it was inferred they had done are now able to use DNA (hard) evidence to exonerate themselves.

I'm sorry but this is silly if you're presenting a case against circumstantial evidence.

Of course, DNA can be used to exonerate someone EVEN IF THEY WERE CONVICTED BY DIRECT EVIDENCE.

Circumstantial or direct - it doesn't matter. New evidence is new evidence, regardless.

No offense, but I've given you what the law states. You can do your own research on these topics by calling your local library (that was a joke).

[Wondergirl]

I'm sorry but this is silly if you're presenting a case against circumstantial evidence.

I apologize. You're right; I'm wrong.

[Athos]

I apologize. You're right; I'm wrong.

Thank you.

[Alty]

Okay, WG did admit that she didn't follow the trial, so, to make it clear, I'll try my best to explain it in a post. Maybe then WG will see why we believe what we believe, and the majority of the world believes.

Two and a half your old girl named Caylee. Her mom is Casey. Casey and Caylee live with George and Cindy, Casey's parents. George and Cindy not only provide for Casey and Caylee, they're pretty much the only ones that care for the child.

Casey says she has a job. She gets up and goes to "work" every day and Universal studios. Thing is, she doesn't work there, hasn't in years, but she lies to her parents and says she does.

Casey also makes up a nanny by the name of Zanny. George and Cindy never meet her, but hear about her often. When they're not available to care for Caylee, Casey takes her to Zanny. One problem. Zanny doesn't exist any more then the job Casey has.

One day Casey and Caylee disappear from the family home. George and Cindy try to contact Casey, they miss Caylee, the want to see her. No go.

31 days go by. Finally Casey is found. After much deliberation Casey finally tells Cindy that Caylee has been kidnapped by Zanny, the no existent nanny. Well, Cindy doesn't know this. Cindy calls 911. The third call she finally convinces the operator to take her seriously. The most damning part of the call, they found Casey's car, and it smells like a dead body was in the trunk.

In the 31 days that Caylee was missing, Casey claims she was looking for her. Well, if entering a hot body contest at a bar 4 days after your 2 year old goes missing is looking, then I guess that's what she was doing. Of course, at this point Caylee was already dead, and per Casey's attorney, Casey knew her daughter was dead, because she claims the baby drowned in the pool.

Fast forward. For 3 years, while awaiting trial, Casey never changes her story. Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny the nanny. The smell in the car (which two dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on) is just a coincidence. The hair, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, just a coincidence. The 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, just a coincidence. The other searches, some of which were "how to break someone's neck", just a coincidence. But I digress.

Six months after Caylee goes missing, her remains are found, right by the Anthony home. She was dumped in the woods, where much of the locals dump their garbage. She was placed in two garbage bags, and a laundry bag. A syringe with chloroform was found near her remains, and there was duct tape over her mouth and her nose.

Side note, chloroform was also detected in the trunk of Casey's car.

Well, the trial comes about. All of a sudden, after 3 years in jail claiming her daughter was kidnapped, Casey says that Caylee drowned in the pool, but, because she was molested as a child, she lied, because that's what she does. Her father found the body, told Casey that she would be found guilty of being a bad mom, and her father disposed of the body. Her dad, a cop!

So, we're to believe that her dad, George, a former cop, not only didn't call the police about an accidental drowning, but put duct tape over his beloved grand daughters mouth, put her in trash bags and a laundry bag, and then threw her away like trash, but, he also let his daughter sit in jail for 3 years, face the death penalty, over something he knew was an accident and not punishable by law. Ya, that makes sense. :(

So please, tell me, where is there a shadow of a doubt, because I'm not seeing it, and I know I missed some of the details which would make this entire case even more damning.

Casey Anthony is guilty, there is no reasonable doubt. No, there's no video, no DNA or fingerprints (the dump site was under water for months), and no eye witness. But I can tell you one thing, if this child died in the pool, why the chloroform, duct tape, no call to police, hiding for 31 days, post mortem hair found in the trunk of the car, cadaver dogs hitting on the car... etc. etc. Casey admits to knowing when Caylee died. So, you have to believe one of the two stories. Either Caylee drowned in the pool, and somehow ended up thrown away like trash with duct tape and chloroform, or she was murdered.

Which story makes more sense?

[Athos]

Okay, WG did admit that she didn't follow the trial, so, to make it clear, I'll try my best to explain it in a post. Maybe then WG will see why we believe what we believe, and the majority of the world believes.

Two and a half your old girl named Caylee. Her mom is Casey. Casey and Caylee live with George and Cindy, Casey's parents. George and Cindy not only provide for Casey and Caylee, they're pretty much the only ones that care for the child.

Casey says she has a job. She gets up and goes to "work" every day and Universal studios. Thing is, she doesn't work there, hasn't in years, but she lies to her parents and says she does.

Casey also makes up a nanny by the name of Zanny. George and Cindy never meet her, but hear about her often. When they're not available to care for Caylee, Casey takes her to Zanny. One problem. Zanny doesn't exist any more then the job Casey has.

One day Casey and Caylee disappear from the family home. George and Cindy try to contact Casey, they miss Caylee, the want to see her. No go.

31 days go by. Finally Casey is found. After much deliberation Casey finally tells Cindy that Caylee has been kidnapped by Zanny, the no existent nanny. Well, Cindy doesn't know this. Cindy calls 911. The third call she finally convinces the operator to take her seriously. The most damning part of the call, they found Casey's car, and it smells like a dead body was in the trunk.

In the 31 days that Caylee was missing, Casey claims she was looking for her. Well, if entering a hot body contest at a bar 4 days after your 2 year old goes missing is looking, then I guess that's what she was doing. Of course, at this point Caylee was already dead, and per Casey's attorney, Casey knew her daughter was dead, because she claims the baby drowned in the pool.

Fast forward. For 3 years, while awaiting trial, Casey never changes her story. Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny the nanny. The smell in the car (which two dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on) is just a coincidence. The hair, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, just a coincidence. The 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, just a coincidence. The other searches, some of which were "how to break someone's neck", just a coincidence. But I digress.

Six months after Caylee goes missing, her remains are found, right by the Anthony home. She was dumped in the woods, where much of the locals dump their garbage. She was placed in two garbage bags, and a laundry bag. A syringe with chloroform was found near her remains, and there was duct tape over her mouth and her nose.

Side note, chloroform was also detected in the trunk of Casey's car.

Well, the trial comes about. All of a sudden, after 3 years in jail claiming her daughter was kidnapped, Casey says that Caylee drowned in the pool, but, because she was molested as a child, she lied, because that's what she does. Her father found the body, told Casey that she would be found guilty of being a bad mom, and her father disposed of the body. Her dad, a cop!

So, we're to believe that her dad, George, a former cop, not only didn't call the police about an accidental drowning, but put duct tape over his beloved grand daughters mouth, put her in trash bags and a laundry bag, and then threw her away like trash, but, he also let his daughter sit in jail for 3 years, face the death penalty, over something he knew was an accident and not punishable by law. Ya, that makes sense. :(

So please, tell me, where is there a shadow of a doubt, because I'm not seeing it, and I know I missed some of the details which would make this entire case even more damning.

Casey Anthony is guilty, there is no reasonable doubt. No, there's no video, no DNA or fingerprints (the dump site was under water for months), and no eye witness. But I can tell you one thing, if this child died in the pool, why the chloroform, duct tape, no call to police, hiding for 31 days, post mortem hair found in the trunk of the car, cadaver dogs hitting on the car...etc. etc. Casey admits to knowing when Caylee died. So, you have to believe one of the two stories. Either Caylee drowned in the pool, and somehow ended up thrown away like trash with duct tape and chloroform, or she was murdered.

Which story makes more sense?

Well done, Altenweg. In fact, superbly done!

I know that took you time and effort to focus your thoughts, get things straight time-wise, and still manage to make a complex case understandable for those who didn't see it on the TV.

I, for one, appreciate very much what you did.

Most importantly, far beyond any greenie anyone could give here, you've given some justice to a little innocent girl who did not deserve the treatment she received from her mother.

The world weeps for that precious child.

[Enigma1999]

Okay, WG did admit that she didn't follow the trial, so, to make it clear, I'll try my best to explain it in a post. Maybe then WG will see why we believe what we believe, and the majority of the world believes.

Two and a half your old girl named Caylee. Her mom is Casey. Casey and Caylee live with George and Cindy, Casey's parents. George and Cindy not only provide for Casey and Caylee, they're pretty much the only ones that care for the child.

Casey says she has a job. She gets up and goes to "work" every day and Universal studios. Thing is, she doesn't work there, hasn't in years, but she lies to her parents and says she does.

Casey also makes up a nanny by the name of Zanny. George and Cindy never meet her, but hear about her often. When they're not available to care for Caylee, Casey takes her to Zanny. One problem. Zanny doesn't exist any more then the job Casey has.

One day Casey and Caylee disappear from the family home. George and Cindy try to contact Casey, they miss Caylee, the want to see her. No go.

31 days go by. Finally Casey is found. After much deliberation Casey finally tells Cindy that Caylee has been kidnapped by Zanny, the no existent nanny. Well, Cindy doesn't know this. Cindy calls 911. The third call she finally convinces the operator to take her seriously. The most damning part of the call, they found Casey's car, and it smells like a dead body was in the trunk.

In the 31 days that Caylee was missing, Casey claims she was looking for her. Well, if entering a hot body contest at a bar 4 days after your 2 year old goes missing is looking, then I guess that's what she was doing. Of course, at this point Caylee was already dead, and per Casey's attorney, Casey knew her daughter was dead, because she claims the baby drowned in the pool.

Fast forward. For 3 years, while awaiting trial, Casey never changes her story. Caylee was kidnapped by Zanny the nanny. The smell in the car (which two dogs trained to detect human decomposition hit on) is just a coincidence. The hair, belonging to Caylee, with post mortem banding on the root, just a coincidence. The 84 visits to a site on how to make chloroform, just a coincidence. The other searches, some of which were "how to break someone's neck", just a coincidence. But I digress.

Six months after Caylee goes missing, her remains are found, right by the Anthony home. She was dumped in the woods, where much of the locals dump their garbage. She was placed in two garbage bags, and a laundry bag. A syringe with chloroform was found near her remains, and there was duct tape over her mouth and her nose.

Side note, chloroform was also detected in the trunk of Casey's car.

Well, the trial comes about. All of a sudden, after 3 years in jail claiming her daughter was kidnapped, Casey says that Caylee drowned in the pool, but, because she was molested as a child, she lied, because that's what she does. Her father found the body, told Casey that she would be found guilty of being a bad mom, and her father disposed of the body. Her dad, a cop!

So, we're to believe that her dad, George, a former cop, not only didn't call the police about an accidental drowning, but put duct tape over his beloved grand daughters mouth, put her in trash bags and a laundry bag, and then threw her away like trash, but, he also let his daughter sit in jail for 3 years, face the death penalty, over something he knew was an accident and not punishable by law. Ya, that makes sense. :(

So please, tell me, where is there a shadow of a doubt, because I'm not seeing it, and I know I missed some of the details which would make this entire case even more damning.

Casey Anthony is guilty, there is no reasonable doubt. No, there's no video, no DNA or fingerprints (the dump site was under water for months), and no eye witness. But I can tell you one thing, if this child died in the pool, why the chloroform, duct tape, no call to police, hiding for 31 days, post mortem hair found in the trunk of the car, cadaver dogs hitting on the car...etc. etc. Casey admits to knowing when Caylee died. So, you have to believe one of the two stories. Either Caylee drowned in the pool, and somehow ended up thrown away like trash with duct tape and chloroform, or she was murdered.

Which story makes more sense?

Very well put Alty!

Many greenies for you!

[Alty]

Most importantly, far beyond any greenie anyone could give here, you've given some justice to a little innocent girl who did not deserve the treatment she received from her mother.

The world weeps for that precious child.

If only words could give this precious child peace. I wish I could do that just by typing, but it can't be done. Thank you for your words, they brought tears to my eyes. I'm still in shock over all of this. Casey should be rotting in jail, instead, she'll likely be free, having served 3 years for the charges she was found guilty of, lying to police, 4 counts. Each of those carries a 1 year jail term. The most she's looking at is 1 year more in jail, but the more likely is that she'll walk with time served. :(

That precious beautiful child will never see her 3rd birthday, she'll never go to school, she'll never fall in love, never walk down the aisle, never have children of her own.

Her mother on the other hand, will be free, will likely make millions off book deals and movie deals. More importantly, her mother got away with murder. It's not right.

I weep over this. It haunts me. This isn't right. This is about one thing, and one thing only. A child. A child that deserved to live. A child that deserved better then she got.

Instead, her body was left to rot in the woods, with duct tape over her mouth and nose, put in trash bags, a laundry bag, chloroform in her little body, tossed away like garbage. This isn't an accident! This was murder, and the murderer got away with it.

It's just not right. It pains me. The only thing I can do is hug my two children, let them know how much I love them, and hope that evil never finds them. But then, how can it not? Evil has been set free. Justice failed. :(

[Alty]

Very well put Alty!

Many greenies for you!

Thanks Enigma. I wish I could say all I want to say. It's so hard to get it all out in writing.

The only thing left to say is this, RIP Caylee. Your time on this Earth was short, but you made an impact. I wish that we had found justice for you sweet girl, but it's not to be. My only hope now is that you went quickly, that you didn't suffer, that you had no fear, just peace. I can only hope that peace is what you have now. In tears I write this. I wish with all my heart that you could have had better. I wish with all my heart that you had been mine. Your life would have meant life, and love unconditional. I can't give you that, I can only pray that you find peace.

RIP Caylee.