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    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    May 10, 2011, 09:05 PM
    Non sexual relationship dating and relationship manipulation
    I am in a relationship with a guy that I believe to be a really good guy, he is 16 yrs my senior( I'm 23). He has been married once and has 3 kids from that marriage, he says he has never been in a non-sexual relationship and neither have I ,but I am starting to become more active in my church and I don't want to be a hypocrite in the church, claiming to be a good Christian while being in a sexual relationship and I told him this, we agreed to try it(a non-sexual relationship) and do our best, but the very next week, he didn't call me except once and when I called him, he either didn't answer or he talked with me for like 6 minutes at the most, this concerned me because we started the relationship out as a sexual relationship and stopping so suddenly , I feel, is grounds for a break up.

    Also, he usually calls me Monday through Wednesday three times a day, like on his breaks at work and after work, then I ll call him the rest of the week, if I'm not visiting him and he always asks me what my plans for the week are and if I plan to come stay with him, but all of sudden he wasn't asking. Anyway, the schedule we had for seven weeks just suddenly changed right after we decided to make this decision, its concerning. Then today he calls me and tells me he's in need, I understand this, you know, two way street, so I'm like okay we'll lets get together, but he said to me that the reason he hadn't talked to me as much the week before was because he was "following My rules" about being non-sexual and I'm like well I certainly don't like not being able to talk to you for a week or seeing you and so I ll give you what you want, but them I'm like that's very manipulative and he says things like this all the time, like they make sense but they make whatever I did or decided, the wrong thing to do, even though it wasn't. I shouldn't be punished for something we both discussed and agreed we would try, right?

    And that's what his not talking to or seeing me in a week was, some sort of psychology or reverse psychology thing to let me "see" how he was feeling about being deprived of something that he really enjoys(the sex), by depriving me of himself because just talking to him or being with him makes me happy and is something I enjoy. His manipulation is not right and I know I have to confront him about it, but what's the best way to go about doing so for someone who doesn't like confrontation or in other words is a coward or "weak minded" like they say- someone like me :(?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 37,910, Reputation: 5430
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    #2

    May 10, 2011, 09:23 PM

    You're thinking, "I took sex away from him, so now he's taking talking away from me"? If he can't have sex, you can't have talking.
    martinizing2's Avatar
    martinizing2 Posts: 1,868, Reputation: 819
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    #3

    May 10, 2011, 09:40 PM

    Even though you have talked about it and agreed , it seems he is still going to try for sex.

    That shows no respect for your wishes or agreements. Red flag.
    He doesn't call for a week to show you how not getting your way feels. Childish and manipulative.

    It seems obvious that when the sex stopped so did his real interest .

    Kick him to the curb, you can do better easily.
    Synnen's Avatar
    Synnen Posts: 7,927, Reputation: 2443
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    #4

    May 11, 2011, 05:46 AM

    This guy is using you for sex.

    Don't bother trying to keep up a relationship with him--he's only going to do what it takes to get you into bed.

    Stop seeing him, and look for a more healthy relationship.
    BMI's Avatar
    BMI Posts: 892, Reputation: 270
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    #5

    May 11, 2011, 07:01 AM

    He's 39 and you're 23? You stop giving him sex and he stops calling? Seems pretty obvious what his game plan was all along. I'd caution you viewing this as a serious, committed relationship, he is not viewing it that way at all.

    Listen, an older man dating a much younger female can be due to many things. Based on his actions, it seems to me that he was along for the ride, in order to get the ride. He had no intention of this being long-term, he viewed it as his fountain of youth. Common ploy from the older person in the relationship who think they can manipulate a younger person in order to achieve what they want with very little consideration for your feelings.

    The above is only my opinion of what I think this man is up to based on what you describe. Also, his children, has he spoken to you about them a lot? Do you see them? Are you part of their lives yet? I ask because that would reveal some intention on his part that this is going somewhere. Even still, his silence after running out of quarters with you is evidence enough of either A. The above is true, or B. His behaviour is akin to an 8 year old. Either one, sounds like a loser.
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #6

    May 11, 2011, 10:47 AM

    Just wanting to play the devils advocate here...

    How long have you been seeing him? This will change the perspective on this... are we talking days, weeks, months? Or even years?

    Speaking as a guy... I would and have viewed getting cut off... far differently than not getting it from someone who never gave it up to anyone in the first place (I.E. a virgin). The longer the relationship the bigger a slap it would be. If we are talking days or even weeks... I'd tell him grow a pair and move on... if its months or years... I can understand his indignation.

    From a guys perspective... its a slap in the face to be good enough to get it... then all of a sudden not be for any reason... of course if he has any scruples he isn't going to actually tell you that to your face. He's going to find other less direct ways. Even if he shuts up about it, its going to manifest itself somehow. As it obviously is.

    Its really not a whole lot different than saying... "I think we should date other people..." or " it's not you, its me"...

    Of course he enjoyed getting it... any normal person would. And just because he is tempted to and actually might walk away... doesn't mean a lot because a lot of good guys would as well as those looking for a booty call would. There are some guys that would stay of course. Most good... and a few that like the challenge of changing her mind. Pointing out its not a sure fire way to weed the bad ones out.

    Is he playing her? I don't know. Only he knows for sure. I think he would have walked and not talked to her at all anymore if he was. Is he upset? I have no doubts about it...

    Having been through that in the past many, many years ago... the phrase "Righteous indignation" comes to mind. And it was my right to feel that way as it was for her to decide if and with whom she slept with.

    Is there a right or wrong thing here on either side? No... they aren't married, they aren't even engaged. She can walk away just as he can over any little thing. And neither would be right or wrong for doing it. There are valid arguments for each sides viewpoint. And each side has the right to do what they want (assuming no laws get broken).

    Again... just playing devils advocate... because there is always two sides to everything. Not saying (or implying) anyone was wrong.

    In the end the OP should do what she feels is right for her own reasons. Just understand he will as well.
    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    May 16, 2011, 05:46 PM
    Comment on Wondergirl's post
    Yeah
    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #8

    May 16, 2011, 05:54 PM
    Comment on BMI's post
    He does talk about his kids to me a lot and he shows me pictures of them and has said I'll met them, at this point its probably more my doing that I haven't met his kids yet because the one time I was with him and his ex wife called to tell him she was on her way to bring him the kids, I got out of there as fast as I could, he never made any indication that he wanted me to leave before they got to his house. I just feel like its too soon for me to meet them.
    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #9

    May 16, 2011, 05:58 PM
    Comment on smoothy's post
    Would a man take his booty call to meet his good friends, mom and other family members? Friends maybe , but his mom and family??
    smoothy's Avatar
    smoothy Posts: 25,495, Reputation: 2853
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    #10

    May 16, 2011, 06:08 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by callyj;
    would a man take his booty call to meet his good friends, mom and other family members? Friends maybe , but his mom and family???
    Its hard to say for certain... but some might, some won't. Particularly if they have any history they might. Believe it or not... I've heard of Married guys dragging their mistress around friends. True... that takes a set of cast iron balls... but it means you really can't make assumptions. You have to be really objective and pay attention... and make your best judgement call.
    kp2171's Avatar
    kp2171 Posts: 5,318, Reputation: 1612
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    #11

    May 16, 2011, 07:27 PM
    Might get a lot of noise for this but I'm in the mood for it. My knuckles are too soft and clean.. time for some damage.

    I drank the Kool Aid and bought into Chapmans Five Love Languages.

    Commitment is shown though physical touch, quality time, words of affirmation, gifts, and acts of service.

    Ja want to throw a mans desire to screw out the window? Fine. Lets delete all the posts here about women pissed their man isn't attentive in the bedroom. It is half the AS threads I'm guessing. But I'm a man of Little Brain.

    ...

    Yeah... sex can be completely independent of the rest.

    But I am in a mood.

    ...

    A man wants sex and it is a Bad Thing.

    Really?

    Bad because he desires you or bad because you don't want it?

    I am christian. I don't believe jesus has his finger on the pulse of whether my pants are dropped or not. Don't think whether a lover spits or swallows or whether I rug burn my knees while going down on my lover is really in his top ten list of concerns.

    ..

    Does a man have a right to withhold attention while sex is withheld?

    Fu*k yes.

    ... and you have the right to walk because he wants you sexually.

    But don't make it his fault.

    Own it yourself.

    It is fine to say you are not ready and not willing to be in a sexual relationship with him.

    But you do not get to demand he gives you only what you want... you get to line item veto his affection for you and you expect him to give attention when he is left wanting?

    ...

    I think your needs should be respected. I think his needs should be respected. I think if there isn't enough overlap you both should walk.

    But I seriously disagree with the premise that a man wanting a woman sexually is just fundamentally bad... and I disagree that a man witholding attention is worse than a woman witholding physical affection.

    It is the same game. Different positions of power.

    ...

    So...

    Maybe I am wrong.

    But my ex, who cheated on me, wants the best I have to offer... she wants my attention, interest, affection... but not a physical relationship

    So...

    Am I wrong? Should I give her the emotional support without my physical wants in mind?

    It is a rhetorical question.

    I think it is absolutely mad to demand a healthy man both show your emotional affection without expressing his desire for you.

    Note I said "express"... you dont owe him. But if communication is open concerning emotional needs... then it must be open for physical desires.
    Cat1864's Avatar
    Cat1864 Posts: 8,007, Reputation: 3687
    Marriage Expert
     
    #12

    May 17, 2011, 05:24 AM

    This line leaps out at me and says that it isn't only the sexual aspect of the relationship where he is using manipulation to get his way.
    he says things like this all the time, like they make sense but they make whatever I did or decided, the wrong thing to do, even though it wasn't.
    My problem with the situation is that you supposedly discussed what you wanted to do and he agreed to it. Then instead of talking to you he plays games to 'show you' how he feels. You are supposed to be his partner not his fourth child.

    I think you have seen a major personality flaw in him and how he handles issues. Unless he is willing to start communicating and finding compromises with you as an equal partner then I think you should walk away with your head held high and dignity in tact.

    From what you have said you were honest with him about your changing religious needs and gave him an out. He chose not to take it but instead to attempt to make you change your mind so that his needs were more important than yours. It tells you where your position in his world his and it isn't as an equal.
    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    May 17, 2011, 12:49 PM
    Comment on smoothy's post
    Okay true enough I guess I'll just go on faith here, thank you smoothy
    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #14

    May 17, 2011, 01:01 PM
    Comment on kp2171's post
    You are right, these are thoughts that I have thought myself and these are answers I get from men that have been cheated on. I can't understand women that would do that to a good man its make me want to beat them up, cause then they complain about how they man has done and try to get everybody on their side and then you find out they started the bull crap and all they got to say about the man they cheated on is that he was a good man. Then they try to give some excuse like, "I was just soo drunk" oh bull, I have been so drunk I was throwing up and could think just as clearly about my actions so I don't believe that for a second. All these women do for the rest of us ladies that get with a man like this is heartache and suspecion and we isn't even like that.

    Anyway, God may not be all up in our business like that but if you have a relationship with him, you want to please him and you and I both know that having self control is one of the best ways to better that relationship.
    callyj's Avatar
    callyj Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    May 17, 2011, 01:02 PM
    Comment on kp2171's post
    And I have read Chapman's Five Love Languages, it give a lot of insight
    ninja2's Avatar
    ninja2 Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #16

    Dec 4, 2011, 04:29 AM
    Of course he's manipulating!!
    He agreed to something, then making you feel bad and playing head games. THAT IS WHAT A MANIPULATOR DOES. Go with your gut and let him go. A decent person does not treat you this way. This is just a sign of times to come. A real man would have not agreed to arrangement, OR when he started to struggle would have talked to you. He chose to let you hang and wonder and ignore you. It's a form of abuse. Next time your puppy/dog plays up ignore them and watch what happens. Obedience training focuses on this, do some research into it. It's quite interesting. He's training you like a dog.

    Sorry, been through it, KNOW IT.
    All the best.

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