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    Mycurses's Avatar
    Mycurses Posts: 57, Reputation: 3
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    #1

    Mar 8, 2011, 07:21 PM
    Law- Pretend Murder Case
    K so in my class we are having a pretend trial. It is against murder. I am defending and me and my partner attorney are not sure what degree it is yet. I was wondering if someone could give me tips on how to defend against the different kinds of murder like Second Degree Murder, Third Degree Murder and Manslaughter. I cannot find any help on the internet. We have until 22-26 of March to come up with a good defense. If you could help that would be great, I really want a good mark!
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #2

    Mar 8, 2011, 07:32 PM

    You really need to figure out how to Google in order to find things on the Internet.

    Here's one site --

    Different degrees of murder

    Here's another --

    Degrees Of Murder

    Look at the second link first.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #3

    Mar 8, 2011, 07:33 PM

    Hello My:

    It doesn't matter what the charges are. Every trial is the same. The state puts on its case by presenting EVIDENCE. Whatever the state produces, you must COUNTER. Or, if the state doesn't prove it's case BEYOND a reasonable doubt, with the evidence it presents, your side doesn't even have to present a defense. You can ask for a court ordered acquittal.

    excon
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
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    #4

    Mar 8, 2011, 07:34 PM

    You fight them all the same. Its just that the higher charges carry a much higher penalty. As far as how to defend that's all going to depend on the evidence that is presented.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #5

    Mar 8, 2011, 07:39 PM

    I agree with excon. You don't defend a client while worrying about degrees of murder or even if he did the murder. A good lawyer doesn't care if his client is guilty or innocent. He doesn't even ask.

    He must defend him by looking for inconsistencies, missing evidence, loopholes in the law, poor police investigation, weirdnesses at the scene, etc. The judge or jury decides, based on how well and convincingly the opposing lawyers presented their cases.
    AK lawyer's Avatar
    AK lawyer Posts: 12,592, Reputation: 977
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    #6

    Mar 8, 2011, 07:55 PM
    The links Wondergirl gave you should be helpful (in general) in determining the elements of various degrees of murder. But be aware that the degrees vary from state to state. So, if your instructor has specified that this mock trial is to be conducted according to the law of a specific state, it is best to consult the statutes (criminal code) for your state. These are available online. Google "[name of state] statutes".

    Quote Originally Posted by califdadof3 View Post
    You fight them all the same. Its just that the higher charges carry a much higher penalty. ...
    And the higher charges have more things that the state needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

    A trial is a battlefield. The elements of the crime (in a criminal case) are the landmarks on that battlefield. And the jury instructions are the map of the battlefield. The elements of each degree of the crime will translate into those jury instructions.

    So, before the trial, you craft the instructions in the same way you would try to prepare a battlefield by building earthworks and other fortifications. And then you plan your battle in reference to the instructions. Is the enemy going to try to storm that brestwork? Can you ambush him at this pass?

    Analyze how you are going to fight the battle (oops, I mean trial) by studying the terrain (or instructions). But, be prepared to improvise, and alter your plan, depending on what evidence (testimony as well as physical evidence) is developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycurses View Post
    ... We have until 22-26 of March to come up with a good defense. ...
    If this were a real trial, the court rules might require you to file a pretrial brief. Such a brief would be what you would want to file by March 26th. It would include a summary of what you intend to prove.

    But remember, in a criminal trial, the defendant doesn't have to prove anything. The prosecution has the burden of proving all elements of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. So, you might say in general terms that "the defense expects the prosecution to attempt to prove that [the general story of what supposedly happened]. The defendant may or may not offer evidence as follows: [ what your witnesses are expected to say]".
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #7

    Mar 8, 2011, 08:03 PM

    First the issue is what state it is in. Then you have to look up the exact requirements for each crime.
    They are not the same from state to state, so requirement for 1st degree in Georgia will be different in California.

    If 1st degree requires the victim to be a law enforcement officer, then prove the victim is or is not.
    Is there premeditation required ? Can it be proved or not.
    And so on.
    Each part of the law has to be proved
    AK lawyer's Avatar
    AK lawyer Posts: 12,592, Reputation: 977
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    #8

    Mar 9, 2011, 09:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycurses View Post
    ... me and my partner attorney are not sure what degree it is yet. ...
    I should have asked before: what grade are you in (or what year if in college)?

    And do you understand the concept of "lesser included offense"? If the prosecution charges, say, first degree murder, the jury may well find that isn't proven, but may nevertheless find second degree murder (assuming all the elements of 2nd DM are proven).

    Again, I urge you to pay special attention to the jury instructions. These should be read by the judge to the jury after both sides rest their cases and before the jury deliberates. Pattern jury instructions can be found online for many states.

    When this mock trial is over please come back and tell us how you did. Good luck.
    Mycurses's Avatar
    Mycurses Posts: 57, Reputation: 3
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    #9

    Apr 6, 2011, 04:56 PM
    Thanks guys! We won our case and for the record, I live in Canada :). And I'm just in grade eight, so the rules weren't strictly like a real court room's rules. My teacher was quite lenient but we weren't allowed to know the charge before the prosecution's opening statement. But we got around that with rumors XD. And it is true in this mock trial that all we really had to do was prove the defendant not guilty of the charge, not innocent of actual murder. Thank for all your help!
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #10

    Apr 6, 2011, 05:08 PM

    Thanks for coming back to tell us the result and that you won. Yyyyyaaaayyyyy!!

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