[truthtrumpsall]

I am so ashamed to be an American, to be living in this country and I'm sure I'm not the only one. My point is a this, said a few ways:

Regardless of what your political situation in, there is one very important fact no one can deny, Pres. Bush said we went into Iraq because there were weapons of mass destruction. We then found out and the Pres. Acknowledged that there were no WMDs, that there was misinformation. Looking through history it seems we should all learn something, one can not just trust what an informant/Comm./Gen./Sec. of Def. when you are waging war on a country. One HAS to know the facts and there were ways for out Pres. To know the facts, but he obviously didn't dig that deep. We went into Iraq on a lie. Why can't we see that that is a problem. That there isn't anything wrong with saying we were wrong and now we are going to fix it. But that is not what happened.

Why does America go running around telling other Diplomats what they can and can't do, what they can and can't have? Who made us the higher power? Now the Pres. Says we are there to bring Democracy to Iraq. Ok, well, did this country ask to change their current system to one that we model today? Why do we think that we had the right to go in there and change their lives COMPLETELY because Pres. Bush thinks it a good thing to give them this so called "gift". We go telling Iran they can not have a nuclear plant, but we are allowed to manufacture nuclear weapons. What makes us think that we know how to keep dangerous or deadly things under proper control? Seems the America that has been created appears to think that we are smart than everyone else. And that, obviously is not true, for many reasons. Interesting how Rices and Bush keep saying that the Iraqis have to get their military together so that they can take control and our troops can leave. Funny how we bring this amazing shift in on their economy, in their politics and their military.

There was violence in Iraq WAY before we got there. If we pull our troops out now there won't be an increase in violence. RIGHT NOW, THIS time has proven that the country they live in today is FAR more avalanched by violence than it has been in a very very long time. There was violence before our troops got there, there was Saddam, our troops invaded Iraq and not only did the violence stay the same, it has escalated. Our troops pull out and there will still be violence. Our troops leave, and there will still be violence. Our troops continue to stay and go door to door "embedded" into the Iraqi military, the doors they open will hold more violence and more danger, the Iraqi people did not ask for this and they don't want us there.

Pres. Bush did not make a new plan, or a new strategy or anything else. We are going to us more military force, OK, so let's just keep increasing our troops, from 4 years ago to today, how many more of our military is there? It didn't work the first time, it didn't work the second time they tried implementing a new plan and here we go again, adding more troops. I thought the definition for insane was 'very foolish', ex. "Pres. Bush has taken insane measures concerning this war in/with Iraq."

Sadly our troops are continuing to die. And while I can not than them enough for ensuring out security and at first, fighting for a cause. They have no been left there, with a so called "non opened time", so when will the get to come home? Seems no one can answer that. I care about our troops and their families, I care about the Iraqi people, the things and people they love and care about. I care that America has allies, I care about the need for us to back down and stop trying to control the world. To me it's like 2 people in a bad relationship, one may really not like something about the other, but eventually it's realized by someone, the person that has a mature thought and they start trying to only change themselves because no one can make anyone change if they don't want to. In hand with that, when the mature person continues to work on themselves the other person starts feeling like things are changing, that something good is going on and then they can work on themselves together. That's what America needs to do, that is what Bush needs to do, be more mature in thought.

So like I said, at the moment I am ashamed to live here, to be an American.

How do you feel about the country you live in? What does America represent to you? What should it represent to the world?

[Fr_Chuck]

I would be glad to chip in to let you move to some nice nation like Iran or Iraq where you can live and be proud of your nation.

[JoeCanada76]

I am so happy to not be american. I am Canadian, and most Canadians was against the Iraq war right from the start. Our Government would not get involved and because of that we were called terrorist nation according to you president. Just because we did not believe it was right, we did not agree on the policies of Bush. We knew all along it was a scam. So now I can say I am proud to be Canadian and that even though you are our neighbours we stood up and said NO. The American government I believe sticks their nose into every conflict around the world and they interfere and get involved which make matters only worse. Proud, Super Power, that only thinks about themselves and money. For even God is printed on your money, when God has nothing to do with money. You can not worship two masters. You eighter worship God or money. Guess what, for north americans, yes that is here in Canada as well. Money is a big industry and money is the cause of the conflict in Iraq. It is called OIL. I have said this before, but the biggest interest to George Bush Senior and Junior is IRAG AND OIL. Notice that when Bush's Father was president. What happened. The War of 93. What happened when Son was President. War of Never Ending. See any similarities here. They have big bucks involved there and that is their only interest. The safety of the American people are not the forefront concern because if it was, they would have not invaded another country. I guarantee that if Bill Clinton was still in office the attacks on America would not have happened and the war would not be going on right now.



Joe

Proud to Be Canadian. I can wear my flag in any Country and be welcome. I would suggest to all my American Friends, and American family. Anytime you travel. Where a Canadian Flag and you will be treated well and be safe.

[mouzer]

Hey I don't really want to be an american either. We are the biggest trash can fillers!! I try to keep things simple by having two cars, one with about 20mpg and one with about 65mpg. I think if everyone had a 45-65mpg car(or whatever) we would have a better world. I think we are the biggest cause of global warming. I enjoyed Al Gore's movie about it. That was very shocking about the glacier on Mt. Kilamanjaro in Africa! In a few years or even months there will be none! But think of the good side, we are called the big brother country(by some people). And uhh... I think that it

[JoeCanada76]

Mouzer,

Somebody at my work recommended me to watch Al Gores documentury. He said it is very shocking.

You recommended as well?

Joe

[Allheart]

Hey truth,

I am and always will be PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. Regardless, of the decisions made for us and regardless of the perceptions the world holds of us.

Very brave men and women served this wonderful country and gave of themselves so that you today, could freely speak and share your concerns. My Father and Father-in-law, were very brave men, who served and there is nothing that could ever make me feel anything less than proud.

May God continue to bless America and watch over all of us. Especially our brave men and women who are currently serving.

Truth, I do understand some of your points. Personally, there is enough sludge thrown our way from other countries, it hurts me to my heart to hear one of our own not Proud to be an American. Just think of our brave young men and women, that is what America is truly about and that should help you to rekindle your pride. Focus on that, until they are all home safely and then we can discuss what a mess all of this is. That's what keeps me going.

God Bless America!!

[mouzer]

Yes I recommend watching it. It is indeed shocking

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes Al Gores movie is shocking, shocking that anyone could believe it and that anyone would pay to go see it. Anyone that wants to talk about someone doing half truths and lies, it is all right there.

[truthtrumpsall]

Hey truth,

I am and always will be PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN. Regardless, of the decisions made for us and regardless of the perceptions the world holds of us.

Very brave men and women served this wonderful country and gave of themselves so that you today, could freely speak and share your concerns. My Father and Father-in-law, were very brave men, who served and there is nothing that could ever make me feel anything less than proud.

May God continue to bless America and watch over all of us. Especially our brave men and women who are currently serving.

Truth, I do understand some of your points. Personally, there is enough sludge thrown our way from other countries, it hurts me to my heart to hear one of our own not Proud to be an American. Just think of our brave young men and women, that is what America is truly about and that should help you to rekindle your pride. Focus on that, until they are all home safely and then we can discuss what a mess all of this is. That's what keeps me going.

God Bless America!!!!

It's always been my thought that god is far from blessing America, I think if there even is a god, the kind of Christian god Bush proclaims to believe in, then this Pres. Has made more than a sad attempt at showing the world how the 'godly' act and how 'christians' love. God is probably really really pissed off that Bush is even attaching his; holy, love not war, turn the other cheek, do unto others as you would have them do to you, name to this poor attempt at being a god filled administration. I believe that god is FAR from blessing America.

Also, don't get my wrong, I will ALWAYS support our military, but I have never once supported the reasons for this war so therefore I cannot support our troops being there. They are valuable, precious people; our military and they DO NOT deserve to die for a lie.

And this is my TRUTH.

[ordinaryguy]

I am proud of the ideals and values embodied in the U. S. Constitution. I am ashamed of our current President and his Administration's subversion of those ideals and values. I am ashamed that a little more than half of my fellow citizens voted for him AGAIN, even after his contempt for those values and ideals had been made plain.

I really don't think it was mainly about oil and money. I think he fell victim to fear and the desire for revenge, and appealed to these same fears and base desires in us all to generate public support for this foolish war and to get re-elected. To our everlasting disgrace as a people it worked all too well. Now, too late to avoid the grim consequences, two thirds of us realize it was a terrible mistake. Better late than never, but oh what a costly lesson. Since our children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren will bear most of the cost, I hope they learn the lesson well enough never to have to repeat it.

[ordinaryguy]

Just the latest evidence of this Administration's contempt for the rule of law...

Official Attacks Top Law Firms Over Detainees - New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/13/op...=1&oref=slogin

[Fr_Chuck]

Let me see, which American Lawyer that would have represented Hitler or SS troops, or those that did war crimes during WWII would have stayed in business.

An attorney is free to do what they believe is correct but then they have to live in the open market for what they do.

Inspection after Inspection show these are some of the best ran prisons anywhere, and American inmates in state prisons would be sueing for the rights these Prisioners of War.

To suggest that a POW should even have rights in court is beyond belief to start with.

America has forgotten what war is and sadly liberals will never let America actually fight a war to win.

I am ashamed, but not of America but of the people who have lost the will and lost the idea of what it takes to keep America free and strong.

[Allheart]

Father Chuck - You touch my heart.

What some of you have pointed out for losing pride in this great country, to me, is politics. Yes, Politics that leads to greed, poor choices and lost lives. Politics is not the reason that I hold just gratitude and love in my heart for this great country. I feel so inept in my ability to express why I have such great pride, however, I found this incredible writing and wish to share it with you, as it says it far better than I ever could.

Please don't let what may be ugly destroy the great beauty that we are privilege to experience. We have the freedom and perhaps an obligation to freely speak of those things that need to change, need to be brought out in the light, but we should never ever hang our heads in shame. Always be proud to be an American. Hanging your head in shame, changes nothing, raising your voices to be heard, with great American pride, will forever make a difference.

Written by: Joyce Bowling
Written July 26th 1999
©November 11th 2006

Proud to be An American!

Patriotism…what does it mean? Webster defines it as; To love one's country. Dwayne Armstrong, a dear friend of mine and a World War II veteran states, "It means to be true, believe in your country and fellowman, and be willing to fight for your country!"

As I began writing, I realized that I must do some real soul searching to define and find these answers. I knew that loved my country, but I wanted to be able to say why?

I am clothed and am not trying to piece bits of rags together for clothing; I am not hungry and waiting in hopes that I might receive a small portion of mush or grain to quiet my rumbling stomach. I have a roof above me, a soft warm bed to sleep in, and clean drinking and bathing water, unlike many in other countries.

I can travel with ease, from beautiful Florida beaches to the beautiful Georgia plantations. I can walk around my own farm water my vegetables, fish from my pond, feed my goats, and spend free time with my family. I am not confined or held captive without hopes of ever seeing our beautiful world. I am not living under the leadership of a dictator telling me when, why, and where I may and may not go. I have the freedom to worship and speak, as well as the opportunity to be whatever I want to be.

Upon searching for the meaning of patriotism and what America means to me, I realized that our forefathers and veterans have given me all of these things that I have spoken of, and so much more. They have given each American their independence and freedom!

I must agree with Webster when he defined Patriotism: "To Love One's Country." I too believe that to love our country we must remain, dedicated, loyal, supportive, faithful and believe in it. We must respect our country and give to it, not take away. We are truly blessed to be American's and to have inherited such a wonderful land, that God created just us. I as one American want to give back as much as I have inherited and more! God bless America and our soldiers from the past and present!

[excon]

I am proud of the ideals and values embodied in the U. S. Constitution. I am ashamed of our current President and his Administration's subversion of those ideals and values.

Hello:

Ordinarydude made a very astute distinction that is so, so important in this discussion. Our government is NOT our country.

The Constitution itself is nothing more than an operations manual that lays out how the government works and checks up on itself. Tab A fits into slot B. It lays out the stuff that the government CAN do. That's no big deal. Lot's of countries have constitutions that outline the same stuff. That doesn't make 'em like us - not even close.

It is, however, the wonderfully crafted, comprehensive, farsighted, and simply written first 10 amendments called the Bill of Rights, that lay out the foundation of who we are as a country - who we are as a people.

Notice, that the Bill of Rights, as apposed to the rest of the Constitution, tells the government what it CAN'T do. And, what it CAN'T do is limit our freedom. That's different. Nobody has those things. Those are what make this country great.

Those freedoms, which are genuinely American, are the things that make me proud to BE an American. Those are the reasons I fought, and shed my blood. And they are the reasons I can sit here and type away at my computer without anybody caring what I say.

And, that used to be so, until Bush drove up. But he's a short term bump in the road. We'll get rid of him before he can screw things up more than he has. I have faith. We will recover from him, as we recovered from Nixon and Johnson and Vietnam, and the disaster that awaited us should we loose that war - which we did, and nothing happened.

We ARE better than him. HE is not who we are.

excon,
A very proud American

[KMSRyana]

I may have been the first to read this thread, aside from its author. I did not respond immediately because I wanted to give the subject some thought. My major concern is this: What are you doing about it? Simply sitting in the comfort of your home or office and stating an opinion about how bad America is seems rather “cozy” to me. I am all for freedom of speech, but I am also a proponent of action. If something is wrong, it's all too easy to whine about it and do nothing about it. Stating that you “love the Iraqi people” and doing something to show your love are quite different things. For example, in my opinion, the worst victims of this war are the orphans in Iraq. Have you contacted any of the orphanages and offered to help? You cannot adopt, as the Iraqi government will not allow it, but what measures have you taken to help these poor people whom you love? Have you written to one soldier, who's fighting in a war that you oppose, to tell him or her that you hope he or she remains safe, that you're sorry that they're there, but you're grateful that they are there for you? That you wish them a speedy return to their home and family?

You question our government. Something that is your right to do, and in my opinion something that all of us should do on a regular basis. You are unhappy with Bush and his lies and deceit. Hooray, you should be. His lies are obvious, and some of his motives are quite clear to the naked eye, which a couple of respondents have pointed out. However, he's in office due to some quite controversial issues. Have you, as an American, taken any action to insure that voting fraud is less easy? Have you taken any steps to make sure that your voice is really heard when you vote? It's been proven by many sources that the voting machines now used widely are easy to manipulate. What have you done to make sure this never happens again?

As excon suggests, the checks and balances within our government have a way of “righting the ship” in time for the wrongs done by one or more corrupt or self-serving officials. He sights Nixon and Johnson, but let's not forget Hoover and McCarthy. In time, and with true freedom of speech things do change, and usually for the better.

Aside from the oil issues and Bush's personal involvement in the oil and money, am I the only person to see that Iraq is a centralized foothold in a region of the world that teaches hate towards us? If you have any questions about that, I'd suggest you read up a little on Daniel Pearl and figure out which doctrine is being taught to many of the youth in the region. The escalation of violence in Iraq isn't just Iraqi people, it's “insurgents” from all across the Middle East. What has happened is that those who hate us and our culture have focused on defeating us there. Not on our own soil. I'm not saying I agree with the war, and definitely not for the reasons that were given to us. But I am damn glad it's not in my backyard. I'd be naïve to think you or me are safe from other attacks here, but for now, the focus isn't here. And every day I wake up and not see planes crashing into buildings (or worse) I am thankful.

So… if you're unhappy. If you're embarrassed to be an American, what are you DOING to change it?

[chuff]

While I'm going to enter this one and upset half the crowd I guess. I too am tired of living in America, which is odd because I used to room with some liberal Democrats and I've got to tell you nothing made me love my country more. They were depressing, always whining, always saying America is evil, always talking about injustice, always running everybody else down, never open to new ideas, and filled with hate. Which was ironic because they claimed they were the exact opposite of everything they said they were.

Yet when my country got attacked on September 11, 2001 and I watched people turned into missles and people jumping from buildings, citizens not goverrnment official even, I watched a man in George Bush take the absolute step this country had been avoiding for decades and know that the middle east had to be dealt with. Some previous Presidents have danced around the issue or done a little over there but none has looked them head on like Bush has.

I don't agree with everything Bush does and I honestly think this war has not been fought like it could have. In fact I think it has gotton way out of control. But we can't even secure our own borders so how we are supposed to secure Iraqs I'm not sure. But this war has ramifications beyond Iraq and I wish the President would quit being politically correct and quit trying to please the tools over at the UN and just let the men and woman go all out assault, take no prisoners and let them go. We had hundreds of the enemy at a funeral and we couldn't kill because the UN said so. Screw them. This is war or at least it should be so why do we have to hold back? Are soldiers are like guard dogs on a leash. I say let them go and show the world who really is the true superpower. Enough of the PC stuff.

I also find it interesting that when a prisoner doesn't get a Koran then all hell breaks loose but our guys get tortured, decapataed and have had there genitals cut of and stuck in there mouth and that's okay. Selective outrage.

In Orlando about 2 month ago someone of peace and tolerance spit on one our soldiers at OIA. Naturally this made the 8th page of the B section of the paper because he was American and not a terrosist in need of civil rights. The soldier mind you, doing what his boss told him to do, not what he even necessarily wanted to do showed much more character than I would have. He did nothing and brushed it off. I can tell you that if some "peaceful" person spit on me I would beat the living sh!t of him until the cops came. Even then they might have to taser me.

I am tired of living in a country like this. I'm tired of being the taxpayer that supports relief and aid to everywhere in the world and yet being told I'm not giving enough. Quite honestly I'm giving too much. I'm tired of being told that when a problem breaks out somewhere the UN calls us to be the police but when we need them they do nothing. I'm tired of turning on the TV and watching the press root against us. I'm tired of hearing a bunch of untalented celebrities who live in mansions in Beverly Hills tell me they know what it's really like to be an average American. I hate being told that Bush is evil and Sadaam is a great guy. I hate being told that this war was for oil when I see no real decrease in my gas prices. I hate being told that Bush went to war only for WMD and not to topple a dicator that paid openly money to terrorists. I hate being told that Bush did this for daddy but nobody seems to have an answer why Clinton bombed Iraq. In fact when I bring that up 99% of the "well intuned" Americans don't even know Clinton bombed Iraq. I hate the fact that so many Americans are so comfortable here and don't really understand what goes on elsewhere in the world and don't understand that people hate us just because we live here and no matter how "nice" we are that isn't going to change. I hate that some many people in America and in Western civilized courntries have a system of government set up that allows them to enjoy freedoms others can't even dream about yet they feel so guilty about that they blame themselves as opposed to the dictators, warlords, or terrorists that are really the cause of this. I too hate America but it's not for the same reasons most people hate it.

[chuff]

One of my favorite websites is snopes.com. The identify urban legends or stories that seem so hard to believe and tell you if it's true or not. Well this link is a story about how some tool who runs the store and/or website discount mats wouldn't send anything to one of our soldiers.

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Discount Mat Rude Response to U.S. Soldier

That just adds to my rant about about what I hate about living in this country.

The funny thing is I was in Wisconsin in Novemeber driving from Michigan to Minneapolis. I wish they would have advertised there digust for their fellow Americans so I could stop in and say hello. In fact why don't you see all these people who own business advertise there digust with America. Hmmm Maybe it's because they realize they are the minority after all.

[Tuscany]

I did not respond to this thread right away either. I guess I never really thought about how I felt on the subject. I mean I knew that I was against the war, but supportive of our troops. I knew that I was tired of America being the bad guy, tired of Bush justifying a war he can't win, tired of the terrorist that can come into this country and kill innocent people, tired that those same terrorist can kill people somewhere else and tired of paying taxes and not seeing any of the benefits of those taxes coming my way.

But with all of that... I still love America. I would not want to live anywhere else. I can go to sleep at night knowing that there are brave men and women out there trying to keep peace so that I can raise a family, have a home, and love my husband without extreme worry. I thank god every day that I live here in a place where women are treated well, where I can walk down the street with my head held high proud of who I am, who I am going to become, and what I have achieved. I see America as a great country and one to be proud of.

[Starman]

I am so ashamed to be an American, to be living in this country and I'm sure I'm not the only one.... So like I said, at the moment I am ashamed to live here, to be an American. How do you feel about the country you live in? What does America represent to you? What should it represent to the world?

I disagree with solving things via violence so we agree on that. However, if I were as ashamed as you are I would pack up and leave. That way I'd get rid of the psychological agony due to embarrassment and shame that living in the United States and being identified as an American is causing you.

[JoeCanada76]

I think maybe you should think about moving to Canada. You would be better off. Just my opinion anyway.

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