[NeedKarma]

Ok you f******g f****t, bring it on. Come over to my house and we'll duke it out over a couple of cold ones! :p :p

That and this thread is screaming for this:

[tomder55]

I do see it as a harm... because they are changing what is actually in the book to someone's politically correct idea of what SHOULD be in the book. That changes the Authors intent.

No it doesn't . It changes a word and in exchange you have one of the best works of one of America's greatest authors taught again in schools in exchange.

How many different revisions of the Bible are there ?

[NeedKarma]

How many different revisions of the Bible are there ?

Isn't that more related to the original being in a dead language?

[tomder55]

Nope most of the revisions I've read are 20th century versions.

[smoothy]

No it doesn't . It changes a word and in exchange you have one of the best works of one of America's greatest authors taught again in schools in exchange.

How many different revisions of the Bible are there ?

Not the same... Who wrote the original Bible? Wasn't a single author there. And it spans several Milenia to boot. With huge changes in spoken languages over that time. And as you know... with the discovery of the dead sea scrolls they found how far off certain translations had become.

Mark Twain didn't speak or write a language that isn't easily understandible or even much different than most people of his region today.


Reason I say that is if you were fluent in any second language you would understand translation... and the fact it is never done literally because basic sentence structures between different languages vary a great deal. Its about learing the words and interpreting them as they might be used if it was originally english. That leaves room for interpretation AND error. None of the bible was written in Modern English. Unless you are mormon.

Do a literal translation of German or Spanish or Italian... you would ask what sort of drugs are they taking... because word placement and structure are far different and can approach jibberish.. I understand Russian and Arabic are far worse but I know NON of those.

That's true with the bible... not true with Mark Twains books.

[paraclete]

No...Not at all. Its total Bullsh*t. Particularly about a word in Tom Sawyer, that reffered to friend of Huck Finn....that you will hear 10 times a minute on any HipHop music video channel on TV.

Bunch of damn crybabies....jeeze. Talk about their parents raising a bunch of pussies.

I agree with you censoring some work that was written more than a century ago is total B/S. If n*gg*rs were n*gg*rs back then then it is a true reflection of that society, why sanitise it. Are you afraid the term will come back into general usage? Now if the term were to appear in a recent work you might consider changing it but what happened to free speech in the land of the free, not so free anymore? When you begin censoring books you are one step away from burning them

[ebaines]

When you begin censoring books you are one step away from burning them

This argument is over the top. No one here is talking about burning Mark Twain. To me censoring means banning, and no one, no one is suggesting that Huck Finn in all its original glory be banned. The discussion is instead about making available a version with altered words, with the intent of making a work available to people who otherwise would not have a chance to read it. The question is this: Given that some school districts will not allow books with the N word in them to be part of the curriculum (as silly as many of you think that is, that's a fact), if you were the teacher would you (a) use a version in class with the word "slave" substituted for the "N word" 200 times (and I would add clearly point this out to your class), or (b) not offer the book at all? Those are the only choices many teachers will have.

[paraclete]

This argument is over the top. No one here is talking about burning Mark Twain. To me censoring means banning, and no one, no one is suggesting that Huck Finn in all its original glory be banned. The discussion is instead about making available a version with altered words, with the intent of making a work available to people who otherwise would not have a chance to read it. The question is this: Given that some school districts will not allow books with the N word in them to be part of the curriculum (as silly as many of you think that is, that's a fact), if you were the teacher would you (a) use a version in class with the word "slave" substituted for the "N word" 200 times (and I would add clearly point this out to your class), or (b) not offer the book at all? Those are the only choices many teachers will have.

It would be preferrable to allow the teacher to demonstrate the racism contained in the attitudes of the people of the day and to do the job of teaching why this attitude is no longer acceptable. I wonder why people are worried about this word when the "F" is in common usage and is just as offensive. Is it guilt for the repressed racist feelings? Talk about double standards

[tomder55]

I completely agree with ebaines on this . The choice here is clear. IF you don't offer a somewhat sanitized version for the classroom you don't get it in the class room at all. What a shame !

Huck Finn is too important a work to be denied so there really is no option here.

[Wondergirl]

Huck Finn is too important a work to be denied so there really is no option here.

Is it Huck Finn any longer?

Wikipedia says, "The book is noted for its colorful description of people and places along the Mississippi River. Satirizing a Southern antebellum society that had ceased to exist about twenty years before the work was published, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is an often scathing look at entrenched attitudes, particularly racism."

[tomder55]

I suggest that is still quite present in the work without the one objectionable word.

[Wondergirl]

I suggest that is still quite present in the work without the one objectionable word.

I grew up in the South hearing that word spoken every day by whites in either a scornful or joking way about blacks.

I say omitting the "objectionable word" greatly dilutes the book's impact and moral.

In library grad school, in the censorship course, we were assigned to read a number of books including Heather Has Two Mommies. It would be the same with this book if the two mommies are made to be just good friends, not lesbians.

[tomder55]

Then another generation of students don't get to read it... your choice;because you know the biggest reason for it being banned is that word .

I frankly don't get it . All they need to do is be up front about the revision ,have the editor write a prologue explaining the reasons for it.. and unleash the teachers . Nothing is changed except the fact that an offensive word is omitted from the text. Have you considered that the word itself has changed since Twain used it ? It was not anywhere's near the derogatory word it is today. The word slave ' is an easy substitute in the book ,completely in context.

I can determine without reading the word that Jim is the good guy and gentleman ,and the whites encountered are the scum of the earth.

What is more powerful?. the use of the word.. or Huck's realization that Jim is a human ,in contrast to what he has been indoctrinated to believe... and his ultimate decision to help Jim become a free man , despite what he believed would be damnation ?

[tomder55]

And got to thinking
Over our trip down the river; and I see Jim before me all the time: in the day and in the night-time, sometimes moonlight, sometimes storms, and we a-floating along, talking and singing and laughing. But somehow I couldn’t seem to strike no places to harden me against him, but only the other kind. I’d see him standing my watch on top of his’n, ‘stead of calling me, so I could go on sleeping; and see him how glad he was when I come back out of the fog; and when I come to him again in the swamp, up there where the feud was; and such-like times; and would always call me honey, and pet me and do everything he could think of for me, and how good he always was; and at last I struck the time I saved him by telling the men we had small-pox aboard, and he was so grateful, and said I was the best friend old Jim ever had in the world, and the only one he’s got now; and then I happened to look around and see that paper.

It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a-trembling, because I’d got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself:

“All right, then, I’ll go to hell” — and tore it up.

It was awful thoughts and awful words, but they were said. And I let them stay said; and never
Thought no more about reforming. I shoved the whole thing out of my head, and said I would take up wickedness again, which was in my line, being brung up to it, and the other warn’t. And for a starter I would go to work and steal Jim out of slavery again; and if I could think up anything worse, I would do that, too; because as long as I was in, and in for good, I might as well go the whole hog.

[smoothy]

I agree with you censoring some work that was written more than a century ago is total B/S. If n*gg*rs were n*gg*rs back then then it is a true reflection of that society, why sanitise it. Are you afraid the term will come back into general usage? Now if the term were to appear in a recent work you might consider changing it but what happened to free speech in the land of the free, not so free anymore? When you begin censoring books you are one step away from burning them

Hell the blacks that cry the loudest use it more often today than Klansmen at a rally in the deep south ever did, and to me that's the height of hypocrisy... and that doesn't include what you hear them call Koreans and Latinos. And I have personally heard that more often than I ever care to.

And I actually do know someone that was at one time the Imperal Dragon. He softened his stance a lot in the years since as he got older. And it was him that told me that, and we are talking over 30 years ago. Sorry nothing more specific that might identify him. Wasn't me... I was a kid back then... a young one.

[Wondergirl]

Then another generation of students don't get to read it... your choice;because you know the biggest reason for it being banned is that word .

Who's banning it?

I frankly don't get it . All they need to do is be up front about the revision ,have the editor write a prologue explaining the reasons for it

Why go to all that trouble? Use the original edition.

Nothing is changed except the fact that an offensive word is omitted from the text.

Did you see my list of 100 books earlier in this thread? Should we change all of those to reflect the concerns of the people who didn't like something in each book?

Have you considered that the word itself has changed since Twain used it ? It was not anywhere's near the derogatory word it is today.

It wasn't derogatory back then because whites accepted it as a legitimate description of/synonym for black people.

The word slave ' is an easy substitute in the book ,completely in context.

It's a cop-out.

What is more powerful?. the use of the word.. or Huck's realization that Jim is a human

The common use of the word in that time and society is the contrast needed when Huck realizes Jim is human.

[excon]

I frankly don't get it . All they need to do is be up front about the revision ,have the editor write a prologue explaining the reasons for it ..

Hello again, tom:

I didn't know that you were so pro PC.

excon

[tomder55]

This will help introduce one of the greatest American books back into the classroom without severely compromising content.

As it stands now with your rigid position ,Huck Finn is among the top banned books in American classrooms.

[smoothy]

Point is it shouldn't BE banned at all. Nor should the Bible be.

We aren't talking descriptive instructions for handballing, with illustrations.

Its Mark Twain... Hell, back when I was in elementry school we read it... and got our butts paddled if we misbehaved or balktalked to the teacher...

Today they can't read Mark Twain... and they can say and do anything they want short of bringing a gun to class... and if the teacher says anything they get suspended, not the student.

See some real problems there...

[Wondergirl]

As it stands now with your rigid position ,Huck Finn is among the top banned books in American classrooms.

It should not be banned.